Technique Discussion: Lone Kimono Left Hand Lapel Grab

[MJS]

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[MJS]

1. An attacker at 12 o'clock grabs your lapel with their left hand.

2. Step your left foot to 6 o'clock as you simultaneously pin your attacker's hand with your left hand and cock your right hand at your hip.

3. Settle into a right neutral bow facing 12 o'clock and utilize the provided torque to execute a right upward forearm strike to your attacker's left elbow joint, causing severe hyper-extension, possibly even a break in the joint.

4. Immediately circle your arm counterclockwise and convert it into an inward downward strike on top of your attacker's forearm. Complete this strike with your right palm up and your left hand checking high.

5. Execute a right snapping outward handsword to your attacker's throat.

6. Cross out towards 7:30.

 

[MJS]

Thought that we could discuss the technique Lone Kimono. Video clip and written description. Looking to discuss the tech. in general, any differences, etc, that you may be doing for this tech.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I would do everything differently.:mst:
Sean

 

[MJS]

I would do everything differently.:mst:
Sean

I'm listening.

 

[Tanaka]

haha, where is the kimono?

 

[Touch Of Death]

I'm listening.

First of all he is missing the back knuckle to the ribs. That's almost an iniquity. Secondly, you can keep your weapon and strikes all on the center line. Swinging back and forth is a little slow.
Sean

 

[MJS]

First of all he is missing the back knuckle to the ribs. That's almost an iniquity. Secondly, you can keep your weapon and strikes all on the center line. Swinging back and forth is a little slow.
Sean

I do the back knuckle strike as well. Hey, why not, its right there.

How do you perform this tech?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

This is a confrontation grab. The opponent is holding you with his weak hand while getting range with his right fist; he's setting you up for the sucker punch, the next best thing (for him) to a rabbit punch.

Since he's holding you with his left on your right, pivot back on your right leg while grabbing his left wrist with your left hand. If you grab with the palm up, just pull hard. If you grab with the palm down, apply a sharp twist away from you as you pull down, twisting his arm. The latter can be hard if he's got a massive wrist and you don't have great grip strength.

Bring your left hand hard to your obi while punching the back of his bicep hard with your right. This is a rising straight punch that hits the nerve cluster on the back of his arm about tricep level and continues over the top of his bicep from back to front. It should force his arm to 'roll' forward along with his shoulder almost like you were rubbing his arm to make it roll like a log. If you don't want to punch his tri/bicep over the top, just twist your body and smash your upraised elbow into the back of his armpit, but make sure you're pushing him down and not up. The goal is to get him to bow forward away from you, putting his face at about groin level on you, facing away from you.

Stay in tight to his left side/back and put extreme downward pressure on the arm/shoulder. Finish in whatever manner seems the most fun; slam him face-first into the ground, kick the back of both his legs, or reverse your downward push and pull him over your right hip/leg onto his back. Or pull your right arm back to the obi, using your elbow to smash his face as you pull back.

In any case, he's never in a position to strike you once you grab his arm and pivot back on your right leg. The only arm he can reach you with is immobilized (his left) and your right is free and he cannot escape it, no matter what you do with it. The goal is to keep his right hand as far from you as possible, and keep him tied up, with his side/back to you. He has nothing in this position - no kick, no punch, not even a head butt.

It's like the dumbest thing he could have done to you.

OK, that's not kenpo, but we practice something very similar in my dojo. Thanks for the comparison; I like yours too!

NOTE: FYI, this is one of the many bunkai we've been taught for the basic middle-body block / lunge punch exercise (chudan uki, seiken tsuki). The reach over grab with the left of his left arm then crosses center as if it were a middle-body block, and you apply reverse power to lunge punch him in the kidneys (or over the top of his bicep as described above). It's essentially one of our basic upper-body exercises with a twist on the application. Sensei makes us come with these on our own all the time. Turns out that nothing we come up with is 'new', it's all been thought of and tested. Fun stuff, though.

 

[MJS]

Nice application Bill.

Sean, looking forward to hearing how you do this move.

Of course, any other Kenpoist or non Kenpo person is also free to join in as well.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Ok... First as I have stated before, you can confine your motion to a single verticle plane. As your opponent pushes, you launch to the rear and into a right neutral bow. As your opponent begins to over extend, you check the grab with a check (not a pin) at the same time, you execute a high left punch (relative to the arm) the rotation of the punch should hyper extend the arm, as you launch foward, allow your right arm to bend to the starting point of reference for a downward Back knuckle to the lower ribs. Return that motion to a hammering starting point of reference (right fist to right shoulder) and execute a strike to the back of the tricept tendon as you position the angle of his arm with your left hand. Continue the motion and execute a chop to the right side of his kneck. You may cross out, or grab some gi after the chop and pull him into a thrusting inward elbow.
Sean

 

[jks9199]

For another outsider's perspective -- the upward strike than downward strike is redundant, to me, and wastes time.

A similar approach that I might use would be:

1. As the opponent grabs me, secure the grabbing hand with my left hand, while stepping back.

2. Either: a) Use a rising right bar into the arm, driving the joint arm upward, smashing the joint, or b) Use either a cross body block (inward circling block) or right hook to strike the arm and head

3. From version of 2 -- grab the head, and use the hold there to assist in a driving left knee strike

4. Step down and back, pulling the head further down to generate a throw/trip

5. Finish by delivering a heel stomp with the right foot.

But, then, I might do something completely different, too!

 

[Touch Of Death]

Ok... First as I have stated before, you can confine your motion to a single verticle plane. As your opponent pushes, you launch to the rear and into a right neutral bow. As your opponent begins to over extend, you check the grab with a check (not a pin) at the same time, you execute a high left punch (relative to the arm) the rotation of the punch should hyper extend the arm, as you launch foward, allow your right arm to bend to the starting point of reference for a downward Back knuckle to the lower ribs. Return that motion to a hammering starting point of reference (right fist to right shoulder) and execute a strike to the back of the tricept tendon as you position the angle of his arm with your left hand. Continue the motion and execute a chop to the right side of his kneck. You may cross out, or grab some gi after the chop and pull him into a thrusting inward elbow.
Sean

I did neglect to mention all the stance changes and moving up the circle, but the strikes could land to just either side of your center line, wherever that center line may be.
sean

 

[Touch Of Death]

For another outsider's perspective -- the upward strike than downward strike is redundant, to me, and wastes time.

A similar approach that I might use would be:

1. As the opponent grabs me, secure the grabbing hand with my left hand, while stepping back.

2. Either: a) Use a rising right bar into the arm, driving the joint arm upward, smashing the joint, or b) Use either a cross body block (inward circling block) or right hook to strike the arm and head

3. From version of 2 -- grab the head, and use the hold there to assist in a driving left knee strike

4. Step down and back, pulling the head further down to generate a throw/trip

5. Finish by delivering a heel stomp with the right foot.

But, then, I might do something completely different, too!

I'ts not like its way up and way down, but that's cool.
Sean

 

[Yoshin9]

Of course, any other Kenpoist or non Kenpo person is also free to join in as well.

I thought the name was kinda long, it's a defense from shoulder grab in plain English; but I understand the Chinese influence with names in Kenpo.

In Jujutsu you can do as in Kenpo and use all strikes but then there is no control just pain; or you can apply a joint lock (Aikido like) before he throws a punch. My favorite is more Jujutsu or Aikijujutsu like: if the guy's grabbing and punching, is to post (grab his hand using your right hand so it can't go anywhere) and use your left hand to block then strike (shoto or PPCT palm) the side of the neck with the same hand before applying the joint lock. Alternatively you can use a stop hit by striking his face down the centre line in the time it takes for him to do his wide bar room punch, this is somewhat Wing Chun meets Jujutsu [J: post, WC: straight punch/palm to face, J: joint lock].

Bruce Lee would approve of the Kendo way, "When someone grabs you just hit them!".

I try to look at principles more than style. Here you can strike for maximum damage and speed, or you can go for total control, or you can go for a blend of the two which is what we tend to do in Jujutsu as we teach that a "distraction" must be done before you apply a joint lock. So it's a common attack and you can approach it from a Kenpo/Aikido/Jujutsu/Wing Chun style or flow from one style to the other.

 

[MJS]

For another outsider's perspective -- the upward strike than downward strike is redundant, to me, and wastes time.

A similar approach that I might use would be:

1. As the opponent grabs me, secure the grabbing hand with my left hand, while stepping back.

2. Either: a) Use a rising right bar into the arm, driving the joint arm upward, smashing the joint, or b) Use either a cross body block (inward circling block) or right hook to strike the arm and head

3. From version of 2 -- grab the head, and use the hold there to assist in a driving left knee strike

4. Step down and back, pulling the head further down to generate a throw/trip

5. Finish by delivering a heel stomp with the right foot.

But, then, I might do something completely different, too!

My interpretation of this is the upward strike is to break or hyper-extend the elbow, the downward strike to a) remove the hand from you and b) draw them into the hit to the throat/neck. Actually, there is another tech that is taught at my school that omits the initial pin and upward strike. Right into the inward/downward strike on the arm, hit to the neck and continue with follow ups.

For me though, I'm fine with doing whatever works. Unlike some Kenpoists out there, I'm not bound by the Ideal Phase textbook techniques.

 

[MJS]

Ok... First as I have stated before, you can confine your motion to a single verticle plane. As your opponent pushes, you launch to the rear and into a right neutral bow. As your opponent begins to over extend, you check the grab with a check (not a pin) at the same time, you execute a high left punch (relative to the arm) the rotation of the punch should hyper extend the arm, as you launch foward, allow your right arm to bend to the starting point of reference for a downward Back knuckle to the lower ribs. Return that motion to a hammering starting point of reference (right fist to right shoulder) and execute a strike to the back of the tricept tendon as you position the angle of his arm with your left hand. Continue the motion and execute a chop to the right side of his kneck. You may cross out, or grab some gi after the chop and pull him into a thrusting inward elbow.
Sean

I like what I'm reading here, but I do have a few questions. We're stepping back to a RNB and checking/parrying their hand with our right? What I'm not seeing is how you're getting the hyper extension.

 

[MJS]

I thought the name was kinda long, it's a defense from shoulder grab in plain English; but I understand the Chinese influence with names in Kenpo.

Parker and Tracy Kenpo all have names for the techs. LK is the name, the rest is simply the type of attack.

In Jujutsu you can do as in Kenpo and use all strikes but then there is no control just pain; or you can apply a joint lock (Aikido like) before he throws a punch. My favorite is more Jujutsu or Aikijujutsu like: if the guy's grabbing and punching, is to post (grab his hand using your right hand so it can't go anywhere) and use your left hand to block then strike (shoto or PPCT palm) the side of the neck with the same hand before applying the joint lock. Alternatively you can use a stop hit by striking his face down the centre line in the time it takes for him to do his wide bar room punch, this is somewhat Wing Chun meets Jujutsu [J: post, WC: straight punch/palm to face, J: joint lock].

Bruce Lee would approve of the Kendo way, "When someone grabs you just hit them!".

I try to look at principles more than style. Here you can strike for maximum damage and speed, or you can go for total control, or you can go for a blend of the two which is what we tend to do in Jujutsu as we teach that a "distraction" must be done before you apply a joint lock. So it's a common attack and you can approach it from a Kenpo/Aikido/Jujutsu/Wing Chun style or flow from one style to the other.

Personally, if someone is going to give me a gift, ie: in this case, their hand grabbing me, why not take advantage of it, and punish them? I mean, you do something they probably wont expect...grab onto their hand, marry it to your chest, and attack them. So many things we can do from here.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I like what I'm reading here, but I do have a few questions. We're stepping back to a RNB and checking/parrying their hand with our right? What I'm not seeing is how you're getting the hyper extension.

As you launch to the rear, your left hand is slap checking his pushing hand to the right shoulder as you secure the hand with your lower three fingers. All of this should overextend the pushing hand.
From the hip, lift a heel palm into the over exended elbow joint...


Is that more clear?

 

[MJS]

As you launch to the rear, your left hand is slap checking his pushing hand to the right shoulder as you secure the hand with your lower three fingers. All of this should overextend the pushing hand.
From the hip, lift a heel palm into the over exended elbow joint...


Is that more clear?

Like crystal. Thanks for clarifying that Sean.