Teaching beginners lots of moves

Discussion in 'Beginners Corner' started by PhotonGuy, May 6, 2017.

  1. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
    Messages:
    3,367
    Likes Received:
    366
    Trophy Points:
    158
    I wonder if its a good idea to teach beginners lots of moves when they first start learning a martial art. The idea is for a student to have lots of moves to choose from when they choose which moves to particularly focus on.
     
  2. Chester Wright

    Chester Wright Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2016
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Location:
    Suffolk, VA
    Not a good idea in my opinion. Drilling a few moves and working on developing good muscle memory is the way to go. Fear not the man who has practiced 10000 techniques once, but the man who has practiced one technique 10000 times.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    17,709
    Likes Received:
    4,356
    Trophy Points:
    308
    I go for less moves. But i don't learn all that quickly.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  4. DanT

    DanT 2nd Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2017
    Messages:
    702
    Likes Received:
    288
    Trophy Points:
    118
    Location:
    Planet X
    For new new students they just learn: straight punch, tan da, gan da, pak sao, front kick and side kick. (6 techniques and once they get those they learn more). This tends to be the maximum that 95% of people can remember for the first month or so.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. hoshin1600

    hoshin1600 Senior Master

    Joined:
    May 16, 2014
    Messages:
    2,823
    Likes Received:
    1,287
    Trophy Points:
    253
    Depends on what your doing. If I link this to your other post about Royler Gracie, I would say beginners are really learning basics that need to be drilled over and over. The teaching of lots of other cool moves is just entertainment while you drill the same basics.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Touch Of Death

    Touch Of Death Sr. Grandmaster

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    11,610
    Likes Received:
    844
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Spokane Valley WA
    Well, if you move the same way, it shouldn't matter how many. The different moves will be at different point on the circle, or simply require a different position of your hand. So, the moves aren't the issue, teaching them as something different, is the issue.
     
  7. kuniggety

    kuniggety 2nd Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2015
    Messages:
    795
    Likes Received:
    268
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    Oahu, Hawaii
    It's a hard balance. If people are coming to class and training the same thing over and over, I would think some people would get bored. At the same time, I've trained for years in a BJJ environment where you'll learn 2 or 3 moves in a class and who knows when they'll go over it again. You're kind of left to try to pick up bits here and there and eventually piece it together. Both ways work.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. marques

    marques Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,172
    Likes Received:
    375
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Location:
    Essex, UK
    I would say less is better. Then, for motivation (and entertainment) is also useful to have a broader idea of what we will be mastering in the future, eventually. (Or if it is a seminar with people at different levels, showing more increases the chance of having everyone learning something new).

    My initial training was not designed for beginners. I trained a couple of different techniques every class. So I was not great in anything, for years. But I was quite all-rounded and with options against different kinds of opponent.

    Focus on a few techniques, perhaps made you more predictable and unstoppable (as some professional fighters are).

    Different ways, different results.
     
  9. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    6,593
    Likes Received:
    942
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    it depend what you are trying to teach them I suppose, if they are learning karate, then lots of techniques' that they refine over the years. If you are teaching them how to defend themselves in the short term, then a very few techniques' done to a high standard is the way to go
     
  10. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2002
    Messages:
    4,067
    Likes Received:
    2,141
    Trophy Points:
    388
    Location:
    New Iberia, Louisiana USA
    Few movements utilized in many different ways.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. Hyoho

    Hyoho Black Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2013
    Messages:
    582
    Likes Received:
    231
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Teaching beginners lots of moves and they always will be beginners. Fundamentals are the key to the china cabinet, Sometimes you will find false beginners who know what is required to advance.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2016
    Messages:
    4,198
    Likes Received:
    1,444
    Trophy Points:
    303
    Very bad idea. Teach them to much there head is flooded with info and can't remember the basics properly so they have a lot of moves but can't do any or them well at all
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Messages:
    14,575
    Likes Received:
    2,578
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Michigan
    First thing we teach them is how to walk.

    Then we start teaching them things like how to make a fist correctly.

    Then we start with kihon (basics).

    Advanced techniques come much later. Some students come in wanting to 'just learn to fight' or 'just learn chi' or whatever. They can want what they like, they're going to get what we teach, when they are ready.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  14. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    22,549
    Likes Received:
    6,620
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    There's a balance to strike here. Give them too many choices, and they don't get to spend enough time on any of them to get good. Give them too few for too long, and they don't really get the overall concept. This latter one is something I've seen with students who over-focus on a technique. They start trying to "make the technique work", using it places where it's not really a good choice, rather than using a more appropriate technique. Of course, when they only have a few moves to use, they pretty much have to choose from those.

    On the whole, I like to move them through several simple movements in the first couple of classes, then build on those (and revisit them) in later classes. When they (still a relative beginner) get a more complex set of movements, I prefer them to stay on it most of a class, and part of the next.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Messages:
    26,422
    Likes Received:
    4,256
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    England
    This! so important. People walk perfectly well outside the dojo but as soon as they walk in something happens, it's usually the one foot directly in front of the other walk they do so often I do have point out the feet walk with a distance apart. If they don't walk properly then stances are difficult which leads to everything else being off.
     
  16. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
    Messages:
    3,367
    Likes Received:
    366
    Trophy Points:
    158
    I agree, but the idea is to know 10000 techniques so than you can pick from them which one works best for you and which one to practice 10000 times. Its good to have a big selection to pick from.
     
  17. JP3

    JP3 Master Black Belt

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2015
    Messages:
    1,292
    Likes Received:
    655
    Trophy Points:
    303
    Location:
    Houston
    Having a huge toolbox if it is disorganized (as it would be for a beginner) would amount to being little better than having no tools at all if you can't find what you need.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    17,709
    Likes Received:
    4,356
    Trophy Points:
    308
    They tend to run into each other a bit at the start.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Touch Of Death

    Touch Of Death Sr. Grandmaster

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    11,610
    Likes Received:
    844
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Spokane Valley WA
    It should be an exercise, in doing the same thing every time.
     
  20. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Messages:
    26,422
    Likes Received:
    4,256
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    England
    What makes you think the idea is to have 10000 techniques to choose from? It's not actually a good idea to have a big selection because you obviously haven't heard the story of the fox and the hounds. A fox and a cat are sitting chatting, they hear the hounds baying in the distance. The fox tells the cat he has hundreds of ways to outwit the hounds, the cat says she only has one, that's to run up a tree which she does as they hear the hounds come closer, the fox sits there considering which of his hundreds of ways to use, he sits there so long thinking of the many ways that he doesn't actually use any because the hounds are on him and he's ripped to pieces. So no, 10000 techniques is not useful, pick one, practice, practice and practice.123
     
    • Like Like x 2

Share This Page