Teaching beginners lots of moves

Discussion in 'Beginners Corner' started by PhotonGuy, May 6, 2017.

  1. Ranger87

    Ranger87 White Belt

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    Of all the places I have trained I really like the way my Sifu teaches. While my style of kung fu is huge, every class we devote a 15 minute or so block to drilling core combinations. From no sash to black sash, those core fighting combinations are drilled into your head. Then, as you are introduced to various techniques and the over all fighting philosophy of the art that you can incorporate into the core combinations to develop own personal style.

    I also train privately in blade work and his style is a very slow, methodological system. Each week I leave with one or at the most two new physical techniques and at least one question or topic I am to research.

    I have been places where it seemed as if an abundance of techniques were thrown at you and you just barely grasped them and then moved on. I did not care for that style.
     
  2. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Welcome to MT Ranger87. :)
     
  3. hoshin1600

    hoshin1600 Master Black Belt

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    i always found my instructor to be amusing, he would ask 3 or 4 people what they wanted to work on that day. then he would completely ignore what anyone said and have us work on what ever it was he was going to do anyway.
     
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  4. Touch Of Death

    Touch Of Death Sr. Grandmaster

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    We are the opposite. The students all have a list to check off; so, ignoring their requests would defy our whole system.
     
  5. gpseymour

    gpseymour Grandmaster

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    I have been guilty of that.
     
  6. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

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    Good question.

    If was teaching someone to box. I would start them out with:
    • Basic stance
    • Basic advancing, retreating, and sidestepping footwork
    • Basic, jab, cross, and hook
    • Basic slipping, parrying, and blocking
    In the space of a week I could give them enough material to keep them busy for the next six months.
    Once they had a handle on the above, I'd show them a basic uppercut, overhand right, shoulder roll, bobbing and weaving, and start exploring some simple variations and combinations, feints and setups. That could keep them busy for a couple of years. After that, it's mostly a matter of delving deeper into the foundational material and exploring subtle variations rather than learning actual new techniques.

    On the other hand, here's the material I would personally like to see a BJJ student have a handle on in order to be promoted to blue belt (the first belt above white - usually takes about 2 years to reach):


    Note - I expect a student being promoted to blue belt to have encountered and be working on more items than are on the list below. This is just a list of what the student should know well enough to demonstrate cleanly.

    Standup

    Basic break falls
    technical standup in base
    distance management and clinching against untrained puncher
    basic pummeling
    basic arm drag
    sprawl
    duck under
    basic defense against common untrained street attacks (haymaker, headlock, shove + punch, bear hug, etc)
    at least two takedowns polished enough to be usable in sparring against experienced white belts

    Guard bottom

    Fundamentals of defending vs punches with closed and open guards
    principles of distance management and controlling posture using guard (primarily closed guard and basic feet on hips open guard)
    basics of disengaging and standing up from guard
    basic arm bar, kimura, guillotine, cross-collar choke, and triangle performed with clean technique
    familiarity with common fundamental sweeps (scissor sweep, hip bump, pendulum, butterfly, tripod, sickle, maybe more?) with at least two sweeps from closed guard and two from open guard being solid enough to regularly use during rolling

    Guard top

    Fundamentals of establishing and maintaining good posture and correct hand positioning
    Understanding principles of breaking and passing guard
    At least two guard passes solid enough to use regularly in rolling. Should be familiar with and working on polishing more
    Straight foot lock

    Mount bottom

    Basic punch protection
    safe hand positioning
    solid trap and roll escape - basic variations
    solid knee-elbow escape - basic variations
    ability to use trap&roll and knee-elbow escapes in combination

    Mount top

    Principles of controlling mount and countering basic escapes, applied solidly
    basic armlock, americana, cross-collar choke, and arm triangle with clean technique

    Side mount bottom

    Safe hand positioning
    knee-elbow escape
    escaping to all fours

    Side mount top

    Principles of controlling position from common side mount variations
    basic transitions to other common top positions (mount, north-south, knee ride, kesa)
    americana, kimura, arm lock, arm triangle, bread cutter choke

    Back mount top

    Principles of controlling position
    transition to mount when opponent starts to escape
    rear naked choke, at least one collar choke

    Back mount bottom

    basic principles of escape

    Half-guard bottom

    basic principles of defensive positioning
    recovery to full guard
    at least one solid sweep

    Half-guard top

    basic principles of control
    at least one solid pass

    In general

    Solid movement for bridnging, shrimping, and turning over to all fours
    Familiarity with fundamental concepts - posture control, distance control, frames, isolating limbs, using technique rather than strength, what different grips are useful for, etc
    Good control - safe to work with - can be trusted to work with smaller beginners without hurting them
    Has at least a basic gameplan for what to do in the common ground positions, both on top and bottom
    Starting to use moves in combination rather than just individual techniques
    Able to roll at a level generally expected of blue belts, i.e. able to dominate most white belts unless giving up a significant disadvantage in size or athleticism, able to start hanging in there with other blue belts, able to demonstrate clean technique rather than just athleticism


    As you can see, BJJ has a lot more material that students need in order to have a solid foundation. (It doesn't stop there either. There are a lot more moves to learn after what I've listed here. This is just stuff you need to learn as a beginner (and continue refining through the higher ranks at the same time as you learn new material).
     
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  7. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

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    Yeah, that's something I don't even know how to think about any more. The way some people count techniques, I know thousands of them. From another standpoint, I just know a few simple principles that I can apply in various ways depending on the situation.
     
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  8. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Senior Master

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    In wrestling, you "push your opponent's head down, sweep/hook his leg up. he will fall". There are over 1000 ways to execute this principles. There are also over 1000 ways to set it up.
     
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  9. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Senior Master

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    That one technique is the root of a tree. It will branch out.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    I see the bjj PR band waggon has rolled in to town. It's crawling about on the floor, its not that complicated. Or you could take the boxing moves and produce a similar over complicated breakdown if you had a mind.

    I did plumbing at night school for something to do and they managed to turn soldering two pipes together in to five pages of learning objective in much the same way as you've turned a simple process into what ever that is above
     
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  11. Hyoho

    Hyoho Black Belt

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    The tree analogy is fine but most will end up as leaves and fall off.
     
  12. oftheherd1

    oftheherd1 Senior Master

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    Yep, I suspect that is true of most arts.

    Your post above the one I quoted is interesting as well. I wonder if grappling arts have more than say a striking art, like TKD. I suspect so but never progressed far enough in TKD to really know.
     

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