Teach stances or blocks first?

Discussion in 'Tae-Kwon-Do' started by skribs, Dec 31, 2018.

  1. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    Yes. This is merely an option available.

    It seems other posters in this thread cannot accept that, though.
     
  2. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    I would also point out that my points aren't directed at America or Americans, I don't know why anyone would think it is.
    A lot of people assume from watching television and films that our cultures are similar but in fact they are very different, our educational systems are different, views on child rearing, how children should behave etc are very different.

    https://acculturated.com/european-children/

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/suffer-the-children/201203/why-french-kids-dont-have-adhd

    https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...french-children-are-happy-eaters-7712217.html

    http://time.com/3720541/how-to-parent-like-a-german/

    http://time.com/4968712/parenting-advice-scandinavian/
    http://thedanishway.com/5-tips-to-talking-about-sex-the-danish-way/

    https://cupofjo.com/2015/07/parenting-in-the-netherlands/

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/lif...n-teach-us-about-child-rearing/article534265/

    And an academic study on parenthood. https://www.jrf.org.uk/sites/default/files/jrf/migrated/files/2132-parenting-literature-reviews.pdf
     
  3. wab25

    wab25 Black Belt

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    I am also in the US, (and ready for more dislikes for this...) But, I always wondered about why many martial arts instructors would give counsel to people outside of the their study of martial art... especially when working with children and teens.

    I understand being able to teach katas / forms, punching, kicking, throwing, the sport aspects... all that stuff. Thats what their years studying the art gave them was expertise in that area. But, doing kata well, or winning a point fighting tournament (or full contact for that matter) don't qualify a person to be a good councelor.

    There are people who go to school and study to becomes councelors for kids, teens and adults. These people actually know what they are doing. I would feel more comfortable with a councelor for my kids, if they had actual training in councelling.

    I do understand that many schools do councel their students, its just the way they were taught and they continue it. If a school is going to councel their students, I feel that they should hang their qualifications to do so, next to their Black belt certificate or make it known that they have no formal training to councel. If that councelleng training comes from a church, I feel that is important to let people know. Some will care some won't. But if you are going to indoctrinate kids, at least let the parents know what you are indoctrinating them with.

    When people outside of the martial arts look at black belts or martial arts masters, they have a lot of misconceptions. Being a black belt, or martial arts instructor makes you an authority in the eyes of a lot of people. Many times, they think you are an authority in things you are not an authority in.

    I have seen too many instances where well meaning people give the wrong councel to others. Sometimes those people receiving the councel have real issues. Giving the wrong councel can actually do a lot of harm, some of which can't be undone.

    However, as long as the school is open about what they are doing, and what their qualifications are for doing it and the parents still want their kids there, thats the parents decision. I may make a different decision about my kids, but that is each parents right. My concern is about giving parents the information they need to make an informed decision.
     
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  4. WaterGal

    WaterGal Master of Arts

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    Americans tend to believe in the old adage that "it takes a village to raise a child". Many of us had influential non-parent adults in our own lives, who gave us advice & helped us to grow into adults and learn to navigate the world. These may have been school teachers, sports coaches, religious leaders, scout troop leaders, neighbors, babysitters, or others. So, when we're an adult in one of those positions, it seems quite natural and good to try to pay forward the help we received in our youths by helping the next generation.
     
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  5. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    The thing is that in this situation, skribs sensei has a masters degree in counseling. And having counseling training from a church doesnt mean you're counseling anyone. A sense is religion should have no bearing on his interaction with his students.
     
  6. wab25

    wab25 Black Belt

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    Great. All I am saying is that I hope his degree is on the wall, next to his Black Belt certificate for all to see.

    Agreed. Especially if the sensei is only teaching martial arts.

    But, if you are counseling people, and your training in counseling is from a religious organization, I feel you should be up front about it. Many religions get along quite well or don't bother one another. Certain religions can't stand other certain other religions, as in you can go to religion A and get anti religion B classes, literature or both. If the instructor is religion B, and counseling the kids according to counseling training given by religion B... the parents, who are religion A should know that from the get go. Otherwise people can get very upset when they find out later... even if the counsel was good stuff.

    Just be open about who you are, what you are doing and why you are qualified to do what you do.
     
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  7. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't remember reading any posts that suggested there was anything wrong with the European approach presented by Tez.
     
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  8. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Most of my instructors would actually say, "I'm not the person to talk to about that." They weren't trained or equipped for giving advice outside MA except in a few areas where they had personal experience. While I know there are probably some MA instructors who simply feel part of their job is to be the wise man on the mount, I've not run into much of that. Most I've run into who did anything resembling counseling/coaching were actually equipped for it.

    I do think there are a lot of MA instructors who encourage certain approaches to behavior. I think that's part of the overall model of teaching fighting ability, but working to make sure that doesn't increase violence. I'm not sure how effective some of that is, nor how necessary.
     
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  9. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    I think it was more a response to the suggestion I was 'hating' America. I wasn't, I'm just not sure that people ( not just Americans) appreciate that there are actually quite big differences in our cultures especially when it comes to children.


    We tend to take that to mean we look after all children but don't interfere with how the child is brought up. For example when we go to the south of France we sit on the beach with quite a few nationalities, children do their own thing but all the adults on the beach will keep an eye on children near the water etc, it's difficult for a stranger to approach a child and not be stopped by someone. That's how we perceive 'a village bringing up a child'.
     
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  10. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I read the other post differently then you...I read it as 'he has a degree in counseling' and 'he is an ordained pastor', not that he has a degree in religious counseling. Reread it, and it still seems to me like two distinctly different things. And for what it's worth, a lot of classes in school for my masters degree in counseling centered around being aware of when your bias interferes with counseling, which includes very specifically not putting your religious ideals on your clients. People I've talked to in the field had the same training. So I would assume his sensei learned to do this as well.

    At the very least, I'm not going to assume he is forcing religion on parents/kids unknowingly or doing anything wrong without anything actually suggesting that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
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  11. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    Don't forget aunts, uncles, grandparents, even brothers and sisters.

    Even if you don't think "it takes a village", the fact remains that kids look up to their elders. If the parents trust the message the Master is giving, and the kids look up to him, then why not have the kids take advice from him?

    I can see that.


    You are correct, two separate qualifications.

    Not that it really matters for the sake of this discussion. The discussion is about whether or not a martial arts master should talk to kids about their behavior outside the school.
     
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  12. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    Outside of conversations he's had with people he already knows share his faith, I've only seen him bring up religion maybe 2 or 3 times in the entire time I've been there. And it's been a comment in passing. He definitely isn't pushing his religion on others.
     
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  13. WaterGal

    WaterGal Master of Arts

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    I feel like, because skribs' teacher happens to also be a counselor and pastor, maybe there's been some conflation on this thread of "mat chats"/"life skills curriculum" with actual therapy or religion.

    From what I've seen, "mat chats" tends to be things like reminding the class to only use their martial arts skills in self-defense, encouraging higher rank students to model good behavior for lower rank students, talking about why it's important to pay attention to instructions, things like that.

    I'm familiar with a large martial arts organization that gives the kids in their children's program a chart to take home, with stuff like "did a chore without being asked", "read a new book", "helped a friend at school", and if the parent checks off enough of them, the kid gets an award.
     
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  14. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    I interact, speak with and help thousands (literally) of Europeans, Asians etc every single day I work. I am used to and respect everyone’s cultural differences.

    I could also tell you which children of which cultural backgrounds are allowed to pretty much run wild, sometimes putting themselves in danger. I could but you know I can’t.
     
  15. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    But you assumed I hated America.


    I'm sure there are but my point was about differences not whose culture is better or safer.



    Most parents here would think that a strange thing for a sports organisation to do. Martial arts are purely sports here, not regarded in the same way as Scouting or Guiding or a religious group, they wouldn't expect to have this in athletics, gymnastics or football nor martial arts. parents would want what they paid for, martial arts training. I have a friend with two daughters, one in TKD one in karate, she said she and other parents would take them out of class if the instructors started to impinge in this way.
     
  16. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    And you think that was directed at you because...?

    I never said anything about better or safer. I can tell you who's is safer, though. Yours.

    It's not always about you, Tez.
     
  17. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    ATTENTION ALL USERS:

    Please return to the original topic. Please keep the conversation on topic and polite.

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  18. Bruce7

    Bruce7 Brown Belt

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  19. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    (DELETED OFF-TOPIC REPLY)
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  20. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    So, in fact you are directing it at Americans? Americans hating America?
     

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