Taijiquan Training Question

[marlon]

is it true that the substantial hand is always the one opposite the substantial leg? If so, then i do not understand some of the apparent striking off that seems to be with the insubstantial hand in the 108 form

Respectfully,
Marlon

 

[bigfootsquatch]

Old post revisited, or possibly I am beating a dead horse, not sure.

I was just re-reading Chen Zhenglei's book "Chen Style Taijiquan, Sword and Broadsword" And I noticed that he too suggests that you practice your form 10 times a day, must be a Chen thing.

As I have said much early in this post, my Yang sifu says at least 3 times a day as did his teacher (TYC).

Now I do on occasion practice my long form 3 times a day but with everything else it is a bit difficult to fit everything in. Much of why I can see I need to make a decision about training here soon.

I was again wondering what the others here thought of this "at least" 10 to 3 times day stuff.

My belief, on any style, is to practice whole heartedly as many times as you can. If that is 1 hour, and then you start dreading it, or getting distracted, then going you are just going through empty movements, so you may as well stop and figure out what the problem is, whether it be boredom, anxious to "get it over with," or simply distracted by life.

 

[East Winds]

I agree with bigfootsquatch. Training without purpose is a waste of time. You will only be exercising joints and muscles. O.K. not a bad thing, but you could do that walking to the office or jogging round the block. Now if training Taijiquan could be achieved by walking to the office or jogging round the block it would be easy. One of my teachers used to say, "If Taiji was easy, everyone would be a master". I rarely now do complete forms. I take sections of the form, or even just individual moves and spend time every day "REALLY" working on particular aspects. I also train Zhan Zhuang to develop inner strength and energy and learn to drop the Chi to the Dantien. Of course Chen Zhenlei is correct, but I for one find great difficulty in getting time and the appropriate space to do that many repetitions. Could I really find the time and space if i tried? The answer is Yes, without a doubt. That is why I will never become a Chen Zhenlei

Very best wishes

 

[Xue Sheng]

I don’t have the time

Yang Long form 10 times
Yang Fast form 10 times
Yang Dao 10 times
Tung Dao 10 times
Tang Jian 10 times
My Chen I am working on again 10 times
My Xingyi forms 10 times (not even getting into the drills at 100 times a pop)
My Sanda…. Well that is also much more than 10 times in drills
ETC.

But I sure wish I did have the time though…. Silly job keeps getting in the way, but I keep trying to get the training in... oh and I forgot to mention the qigong.... must do related qigong.

 

[marlon]

after the first single whip there is raising the hands then a move that i see as a shoulder strike but the person who taught me the form has it only as a transitionaL move...then i read in cmc 's book that he has it as not only a shoulder strike but also a left palm short force strike? any enlightment welcome

Respectfully,
Marlon

 

[marlon]

when applying a strike with the hand from the substantial leg do you strike short then step through as your weight transits or do you continue your strike through the opponent but then your leg would be becoming insubstantial?

Respectfully,
Marlon

 

[Xue Sheng]

after the first single whip there is raising the hands then a move that i see as a shoulder strike but the person who taught me the form has it only as a transitionaL move...then i read in cmc 's book that he has it as not only a shoulder strike but also a left palm short force strike? any enlightment welcome

Respectfully,
Marlon

It is Cao one of the 13 postures and it is a shoulder strike. There is also a palm strike there as well that is fairly obvious in Traditinal long form but I am not exaclty sure how in looks in CMC.

 

[Xue Sheng]

when applying a strike with the hand from the substantial leg do you strike short then step through as your weight transits or do you continue your strike through the opponent but then your leg would be becoming insubstantial?

Respectfully,
Marlon

What posture/form?

is it true that the substantial hand is always the one opposite the substantial leg? If so, then i do not understand some of the apparent striking off that seems to be with the insubstantial hand in the 108 form

Respectfully,
Marlon

I am pressed for time right now and apparently my brain is not working, I will get back to you, unless someone else answers you first.

 

[Flying Crane]

I wish I could do ALL of my forms, both internal and external, ten times a day. But I am afraid I would need about 8-10 hours a day to do that. That's just a schedule I cannot keep. 'Tis the curse of the perpetually curious...

 

[East Winds]

marlon,

From Step up to Raise Hands into White Crane is a transition. It is also a Shoulder Stroke. It can be used either to "Body Check" your opponent away or it can be used to step into your opponent using your right arm as a lever under his left armpit and throwing him away as you open out into White Crane. There are several applications for each posture, at least in the Yang Family Form.

When delivering a strike in Traditional Yang Form, the feet must always be firmly planted before delivering the strike. The strike comes from the feet, is transmitted throught the waist and delivered by the hands.

Very best wishes

 

[Nebuchadnezzar]

marlon,

From Step up to Raise Hands into White Crane is a transition. It is also a Shoulder Stroke. It can be used either to "Body Check" your opponent away or it can be used to step into your opponent using your right arm as a lever under his left armpit and throwing him away as you open out into White Crane. There are several applications for each posture, at least in the Yang Family Form.

When delivering a strike in Traditional Yang Form, the feet must always be firmly planted before delivering the strike. The strike comes from the feet, is transmitted throught the waist and delivered by the hands.

Very best wishes

Thank you for the explanation and example. This Tai Chi Newbie appreciates it. :wakko:

 

[Xue Sheng]

marlon,

From Step up to Raise Hands into White Crane is a transition. It is also a Shoulder Stroke. It can be used either to "Body Check" your opponent away or it can be used to step into your opponent using your right arm as a lever under his left armpit and throwing him away as you open out into White Crane. There are several applications for each posture, at least in the Yang Family Form.

When delivering a strike in Traditional Yang Form, the feet must always be firmly planted before delivering the strike. The strike comes from the feet, is transmitted throught the waist and delivered by the hands.

Very best wishes

Which is also where Kao (sorry I noticed I spelled it wrong last night) from the 13 postures appears in the Taiji postures.

 

[marlon]

marlon,

From Step up to Raise Hands into White Crane is a transition. It is also a Shoulder Stroke. It can be used either to "Body Check" your opponent away or it can be used to step into your opponent using your right arm as a lever under his left armpit and throwing him away as you open out into White Crane. There are several applications for each posture, at least in the Yang Family Form.

When delivering a strike in Traditional Yang Form, the feet must always be firmly planted before delivering the strike. The strike comes from the feet, is transmitted throught the waist and delivered by the hands.

Very best wishes

thank you, the person teaching me must be mis informed (btw for the record i am learning the traditional yang 108) do you step back before the splitting or go directly to it. I have seen videos of Fu Zohng Wei(sp) who learned from YCF step back before splitting but i did not learn it so

Respectfully,
Marlon

 

[marlon]

Which is also where Kao (sorry I noticed I spelled it wrong last night) from the 13 postures appears in the Taiji postures.

yes i remember it from the 13 postures. thanks
marlon

 

[East Winds]

marlon,

My understanding is that once you have completed Shoulder Stroke, the body then turns to the left and the left foot steps forward into empty stance as you split the arms into White Crane. I'm not sure I have seen Fu Zhong Wen stepping back though.

Very best wishes

 

[Xue Sheng]

marlon

Sorry I took so long to get to this, but to be honest I wanted to talk to my sifu about it before I answered this.

is it true that the substantial hand is always the one opposite the substantial leg?

Yes

If so, then i do not understand some of the apparent striking off that seems to be with the insubstantial hand in the 108 form

Which strikes don’t make sense?

Also you do not always strike with the insubstantial hand. For example in “Fan through the arms (Shan tung pi) the substantial leg and the substantial hand are forward and that is the hand that is actually attacking. And the power is still coming from the insubstantial leg

But in something like Brush Knee Twist Step (lo xi yao pu) your substantial leg is the front leg and your insubstantial hand is forward, but the power for the strike is coming from the insubstantial leg.

when applying a strike with the hand from the substantial leg do you strike short then step through as your weight transits or do you continue your strike through the opponent but then your leg would be becoming insubstantial?

Not sure what you are saying here, is there a specific posture you are referring to?

However it does sounds like the conundrum I was having with CMC in application. Most of the strikes I was shown came from the substantial leg, much like western boxing and this made no sense to me coming from Traditional Yang and Chen. However the Sifu teaching it and his sifu (William CC Chen) were very good at making it work. But then Sifu Chen’s whole idea of rooting is very different from that of traditional Yang style Taiji. He talks about the 3 nails where Yang Taiji is rooting though the yongquan cavity (or point) in the bottom of the foot in roughly the middle.

 

[marlon]

marlon

Sorry I took so long to get to this, but to be honest I wanted to talk to my sifu about it before I answered this.




However it does sounds like the conundrum I was having with CMC in application. Most of the strikes I was shown came from the substantial leg, much like western boxing and this made no sense to me coming from Traditional Yang and Chen. However the Sifu teaching it and his sifu (William CC Chen) were very good at making it work. But then Sifu Chen’s whole idea of rooting is very different from that of traditional Yang style Taiji. He talks about the 3 nails where Yang Taiji is rooting though the yongquan cavity (or point) in the bottom of the foot in roughly the middle.

thank you very much for a well thought out answer. The rooting i am learning comes from yang family and from CMC's books, he did not teach the three nails theory that is innovation from CC Chen. I am just trying to fit the theory i am learning through books with what i am doing. i appreciate your help in my understanding. thanks

respectfully,
Marlon

 

[marlon]

marlon,

My understanding is that once you have completed Shoulder Stroke, the body then turns to the left and the left foot steps forward into empty stance as you split the arms into White Crane. I'm not sure I have seen Fu Zhong Wen stepping back though.

Very best wishes

You are right..i do not know what i thought i saw. thanks, my error

respectfully,
marlon

 

[marlon]

in taiji does it change anything for rooting if you are flat footed?

marlon

 

[Xue Sheng]

in taiji does it change anything for rooting if you are flat footed?

marlon

As long as you have a yongquan point
http://www.healthphone.com/consump_english/a_energy_train/first_aid/images/yongquan.gif
for traditional Taiji

And the 3 nails
http://www.williamccchen.com/3nails1.jpg
for CMC from William CC Chen...no