Sword and hammer pt. 1 and 2

Chris Parker

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Yep. I'm Blade...and you lookin mighty like Frost rightaboutnow.

You're really not, you know. You're coming across as the kid who plays dress-ups, imagining they're the big bad scary movie character without having the first clue about what reality is. And there's not really any point giving more remarkably appropriate anecdotal "evidence" for your "reality" (which always seems to be a "real life encounter" for any of a hundred thousand things you get questioned on....), as I'm saying it's how you come across in the way you present yourself here. If you don't want that image, change it.

No, Ras, further proof that you couldn't follow the simple argument that was put to you. Your ego is your biggest problem, son. Get past it, or you'll just have less and less to offer, and less and less people to offer it to.

Says the guy who got disproved every whichaway. Every single time. And still hasn't produced that video he promised months ago. Wait...lemme guess. It's against your instructor's wishes to make videos AND coherent sensible truthful arguments too?

I followed the simple arguments you made. They ARE simple too...simply disproven, simply incorrect, simply untrue, simple nonsense. Simply something most people with any real world scrappin experience wouldn't endorse or cosign. The more you post...and the longer your posts are...the more you out yourself as being nowhere near as knowledgeable as you present yourself as being.

You are, however, highly opinionated. That's cool. Have fun with that.

AMANI...peace.

Oh boy.... son, you have yet to deal with my first post in this thread. You have yet to even grasp the basic comments made, and come back with any real answer.

Tell you what, here it is again.

You presented a few videos of the "traditional" way of performing Sword and Hammer. You then presented a few videos of attacks that that technique is not designed to handle, as a way of demonstrating what you think the problems with the "traditional" form is. Then, finally, you presented your video/s, which start with you showing the "traditional" form, before going into a technique which shares practically nothing in common with it as an "improved" version of Sword and Hammer.

Through this, you were questioned as to why you believed your technique was a version of Sword and Hammer itself, rather than just your personal take on what you think would work against a different attack (to the one that Sword and Hammer is designed for), to which you have happened to use the same name. In other words, you were asked what makes a technique "Sword and Hammer" in the first place, and how were those aspects seen or manifested in your technique. All you have come back with is "but look how much more effective mine is!", while simultaneously missing the basis of the question itself (and making some huge mistakes along the way, some very questionable assumptions, and riding a path of arrogance that would have made Mohamed Ali blush in his hey-day... and Ali could at least genuinely back it up.

It's not about which technique is more effective (although, again, I don't think you understand the traditional one enough to make any kind of comment), it's about what makes your technique a version of Sword and Hammer as you compared it, instead of just it's own technique, separate and distinct. Try again.

And dude, I'm "highly opinionated"?

Agreed.

Lee, Ras was fed the tactics of Sword and Hammer by me on page 17, he still failed to get it. When he finally put something down, it was a list of Kenpo principles (not specific to any technique) that he saw in his own technique, completely missing the point of the question. He can't answer it as he doesn't understand it. I don't think we're going to get any further pressing him on it.

As usual, Ras understands better than you and your cosigners combined. You guys fail to understand in any way the simplicity of and supremacy of performance. Why is that? Because I've been to where you are, you've never been to where I am.

The bottom line is PERFORMANCE.

No, it's not. See above... or, hell, the last 34 pages.

If I perform better, against more scenarios, sooner, more skillfully, and build perpetually upon that lead with my Sword and Hammer or [ insert any technique ] than you AND my detractors do...combined...then my performance is better. Period. That's exactly precisely what I do, too. You know why I do that?

Frankly, I don't know THAT you do that. I question pretty much each technique you've put up, as there are typically a number of issues to each of them.

And kid, no matter what you think your skill level is, assuming that you can do things "better, against more scenarios, sooner, more skillfully" etc than myself is a dangerous game for you to play. You really don't have a clue what I can do, or how I can do it... but for the record, you aren't that impressive to me. That might be a clue as to how you compare in the real world.

Not because of arrogance. Not because my athleticism is better than any or all of yours [ I might be the better athlete, but Idk if I am and that's not the point ] . The reason I perform better than you is because my training paradigm is better, broader, deeper, faster and superior in every way.

It's really not, you know. At all. The lack of depth of your training approach is shown in this thread, the idea of it being better is a personal opinion, and really of no importance here, you've made claims of "faster" that have been largely ridiculed (appropriately), the breadth of my training somewhat dwarfes yours when it comes down to it, and the idea of your training being "superior" but your comments not being based in ego is just laughable.

You are far from the first in what you do, and far from the best. Seriously, get over yourself.

The reason that my training paradigm is better is because I've made cognitive connections regarding the sheer supremacy of performance that neither you nor my detractors have made. You CAN make them, but REFUSE to do so...for various reasons. Whatever those reasons are? Fine with me, no beef with them. You may be perfectly content with those reasons too, and I'm cool with that.

You're making some rather bold (and incorrect) assumptions there, Ras. In fact, I'd say that I came to such an understanding years ago, but have since moved on to better understanding which has lead me to be able to look at the "traditional" techniques and see what they're actually teaching, how they're doing it, and why. You aren't anywhere near that level yet from any of your posts or videos here. You have techniques. I have techniques, but I have a hell of a lot more besides, which you aren't even close to.

But...can you grapple with your Sword and Hammer? No? Can you disengage the sleeper or any other choke with your Sword and Hammer? No? Can and do you strike to any direction against any foe from any transition with your Sword and Hammer? No? Can you use your Sword and Hammer with armed with a gun, sword, knife, stick, etc etc or any combo thereof? No? Do you even THINK TO TRAIN YOUR SWORD AND HAMMER IN ANY WAY REMOTELY AS COMPREHENSIVE AS I DO? NO?

Wait a sec, have you forgotten who you're addressing Ras? I'm not a Kenpo guy, I don't have that technique... so no, I don't "think about it" in any way other than the context of this thread. And isn't this just you going back to the idea of "one technique for all situations" that we've already dealt with (and your flawed approach to that idea)?

That means that you'll ALWAYS be vulnerable to things with your [ insert technique ] that I won't be. That means categorically and empirically that I will ALWAYS outperform you. So will my students. And that's the bottom line.

Garbage. I'm in a better position to handle variations because I'm not trying to fit one technique to everything, I'm applying my art (it's principles, tactics, strategies) to the needs as they arise. But that approach seems to be a fair bit above your pay-grade, as when prompted to discuss it, you couldn't, and came up with things that weren't of any relevance at all.

Any doubts? Okay. Show me that you're doing with your [ insert your technique ] that outperforms what I do. Show me that you can outperform me doing your ALTERNATING MACES...with knives. Show me how you do ALTERNATING MACES...from different blocks. Show me your Short 1 or whatever...from off your back. Show me your Sword and Hammer done standing and on the ground in EXACTLY THE SAME WAY. Show me how you achieve chokeholds with your Alternating Maces. Show me how you spar with your Attacking Mace.

Dude. Not Kenpo. I don't give a damn about showing you that I can "outperform" you in an art I don't train in. And again, that is really nothing to do with what the argument has been about.

Show me. No long drawn out posts. Show me your PERFORMANCE.

Not the argument, son.

Thought not.

I outperform you. I out thought you. I understand better. And I will stay that way until you bridge the gap by...amping your performance.

Re-read the thread. Recognise that none of this is what we've been saying, or talking about. You haven't outperformed me, as you have no idea what my performance level is (even leaving off the idea of my performance of an art I don't train in... no idea where your coming from there!), you haven't out-thought me (as you haven't followed anything from the first post onwards, and have instead been arguing something that doesn't address the comments and obervations I made), and you have shown that you absolutely don't understand anything better. How about you take some time to try to understand why the techniques are presented the way they are, rather than just say "that wouldn't work in real life" and ignore the actual point of them. Then you might start to come someway towards my level. At the moment, you are barely at my ankles.


Before you come back for the "next", take on board what I've said. Try to understand that you're not being attacked for what your technique does, but for what you're claiming it is (a version of the traditional one), as you can't and haven't offered anything to support that contention.

I'm a blunt, direct talking guy. But I'm also open minded.

No, you're not. On all counts.
 

Twin Fist

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talking to this guy is like playing chess with a chicken. No matter how good your points are, all he does is knock over pieces, crap on the board and strut around like he won something.
 
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MJS

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Oh my...I guess dead things can come back to life. LOL! And here I thought the Travon Martin thread was a long one...LOL
 

MJS

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Garbage. I'm in a better position to handle variations because I'm not trying to fit one technique to everything, I'm applying my art (it's principles, tactics, strategies) to the needs as they arise. But that approach seems to be a fair bit above your pay-grade, as when prompted to discuss it, you couldn't, and came up with things that weren't of any relevance at all.

This! This, IMHO, I feel, is where Chris and I are on the same page. I do the same thing with my techniques as well. I'm at a point, where I put the techs on the backburner and just fall back on what Chris said here...the principles, tactics, strategies, etc.
 

Josh Oakley

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This! This, IMHO, I feel, is where Chris and I are on the same page. I do the same thing with my techniques as well. I'm at a point, where I put the techs on the backburner and just fall back on what Chris said here...the principles, tactics, strategies, etc.

Which, from talking to my instructor, and from reading SGM Parker's writings and listening to his interviews, was the whose point of the techs anyway.

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ATACX GYM

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This! This, IMHO, I feel, is where Chris and I are on the same page. I do the same thing with my techniques as well. I'm at a point, where I put the techs on the backburner and just fall back on what Chris said here...the principles, tactics, strategies, etc.

The most efficient way to download the principles, tactics strategies etc is to practice them in a structured training paradigm that rapidly downloads the importance of grasping the principles behind the techniques. Understanding the principles behind the techniques comes from copious amounts of reps in numerous different situations. Grasping the principles should and can be done sooner--like White Belt--with the proper combination of Alive Training, high levels of reps of single techniques sequences and multiple techniques and sequences against escalating resistance, and multiple drills and isolated sparring scenarios wherein you're called upon to use your skills.

Chris Parker, is speaking from whatever experience he has. He is missing what is blatantly obvious to skilled experienced fighters. And all of that yakkity yakk and much of our disagreements would vanish if we were both on the mat together. He'd quickly see what I was talking about, and he'd quickly see that I already knew what he was talking about. However, Chris is apparently constrained by his instructor to NOT visually display via video his sublime mastery of technique, principle and strategy, so he crafts posts that make it clear that he and I have no common ground.

He contends that my S&H isn't a version of the "traditional" S&H. If he refers to the most popular variant of Sword and Hammer? That expression IS NOT THEE "Sword and Hammer". He fails to grasp that there IS NO "TRADITIONAL" Sword and Hammer. The Sword and Hammer--as defined by Big Red--is really a "loose guideline" designed for instructors to create THEIR OWN "Sword and Hammer". The Tracy technique "Attack the Circle" fits into the equation. My expression does. The more popular variant mistakenly referred to as The Ideal Phase Sword and Hammer fits.

MJS, from our previous phone conversation you should know directly...the method I champion far more speedily, thoroughly and comprehensively achieves this desired effect than the extant Kenpo training paradigm.
 

Chris Parker

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The most efficient way to download the principles, tactics strategies etc is to practice them in a structured training paradigm that rapidly downloads the importance of grasping the principles behind the techniques. Understanding the principles behind the techniques comes from copious amounts of reps in numerous different situations. Grasping the principles should and can be done sooner--like White Belt--with the proper combination of Alive Training, high levels of reps of single techniques sequences and multiple techniques and sequences against escalating resistance, and multiple drills and isolated sparring scenarios wherein you're called upon to use your skills.

However what you've presented is not practicing them in a structured training method which focuses on the principles. In fact, that's what the "standard" form of the technique does... you know, the one that you don't like? So your argument is that you need a training method which is precisely what everyone else uses, because what everyone else does doesn't work?

Chris Parker, is speaking from whatever experience he has. He is missing what is blatantly obvious to skilled experienced fighters. And all of that yakkity yakk and much of our disagreements would vanish if we were both on the mat together. He'd quickly see what I was talking about, and he'd quickly see that I already knew what he was talking about. However, Chris is apparently constrained by his instructor to NOT visually display via video his sublime mastery of technique, principle and strategy, so he crafts posts that make it clear that he and I have no common ground.

I'm speaking from a hell of a lot of experience, son. And some have suggested that I'm already a skilled, experienced fighter. From watching your videos, no, I don't see that you know what you're talking about. I see that you have some physical skills, but that's it. And my constraints are something that you still don't seem to get, so I wouldn't recommend engaging in any guesswork there.

Oh, and I don't craft posts to demonstrate that we have no common ground, I structure arguments intended to get an answer. And your answers have shown that you don't really have much knowledge or understanding, when it all comes down to it.

He contends that my S&H isn't a version of the "traditional" S&H. If he refers to the most popular variant of Sword and Hammer? That expression IS NOT THEE "Sword and Hammer". He fails to grasp that there IS NO "TRADITIONAL" Sword and Hammer. The Sword and Hammer--as defined by Big Red--is really a "loose guideline" designed for instructors to create THEIR OWN "Sword and Hammer". The Tracy technique "Attack the Circle" fits into the equation. My expression does. The more popular variant mistakenly referred to as The Ideal Phase Sword and Hammer fits.

Yeah, I do. So do quite a number of others here. And you have not been able to identify why you think your technique is a version of it, despite being asked for 34 pages now. So can you answer it, if you're still claiming it? What makes your technique Sword and Hammer as presented (even as a loose guideline) by Big Red? What is listed as being necessary, and how to you have it in your expression?
 
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ATACX GYM

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However what you've presented is not practicing them in a structured training method which focuses on the principles. In fact, that's what the "standard" form of the technique does... you know, the one that you don't like? So your argument is that you need a training method which is precisely what everyone else uses, because what everyone else does doesn't work?



I'm speaking from a hell of a lot of experience, son. And some have suggested that I'm already a skilled, experienced fighter. From watching your videos, no, I don't see that you know what you're talking about. I see that you have some physical skills, but that's it. And my constraints are something that you still don't seem to get, so I wouldn't recommend engaging in any guesswork there.

Oh, and I don't craft posts to demonstrate that we have no common ground, I structure arguments intended to get an answer. And your answers have shown that you don't really have much knowledge or understanding, when it all comes down to it.



Yeah, I do. So do quite a number of others here. And you have not been able to identify why you think your technique is a version of it, despite being asked for 34 pages now. So can you answer it, if you're still claiming it? What makes your technique Sword and Hammer as presented (even as a loose guideline) by Big Red? What is listed as being necessary, and how to you have it in your expression?


Againt my better judgement, I've decided to engage this line of...reasoning. But let's break this down into more bite-sized chunks so that it's more easily digested by the viewership. Chris Parker. Select one point that you want me to address, and present one question from the post above that you want me to address. I will address it. We will reach a clear understanding of the points that we'll probably perpetually disagree upon...and let's limit ourselves to 5 posts each to explain as clearly as possible our positions, perceptions, mis/understandings, reach an operational conclusion about whatever it is you choose...then move to the next matter in your post above. With the same constraints. This way my threads don't become interminable shrill-fests, but instead feature straight-ahead, sensible, mature adult logic and data. Whaddya say?

Let's do that here too. Saves time and energy. This way we don't talk PAST or AT each other, we talk TO each other and have a tightly focused discussion with a terminus in sight.
 

Chris Parker

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I only really asked one question, Ras, and I've repeated the same damn question for 34 pages.

What makes you believe that your technique is a version of the "standard" form as you present it as being?

Seriously, 34 pages, and you haven't answered that from my first post on page one (the second post of the thread).
 
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ATACX GYM

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I only really asked one question, Ras, and I've repeated the same damn question for 34 pages.

What makes you believe that your technique is a version of the "standard" form as you present it as being?

Seriously, 34 pages, and you haven't answered that from my first post on page one (the second post of the thread).

What would you define as the "standard form" Sword and Hammer? Please provide a video example.
 

Chris Parker

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See the first goddamn post, Ras. You presented it yourself in three different clips, then at the start of each and every one of yours.
 
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ATACX GYM

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See the first goddamn post, Ras. You presented it yourself in three different clips, then at the start of each and every one of yours.


I insist that you present the specific video that you are referring to in order to make the possibility of misunderstanding in any way as minute as possible.
 

Chris Parker

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Are you kidding?!?! You started the damn thread with them, Ras!! Use your own damn clips as a reference, that's what the entire threads been based on! It's been accepted since the beginning that they represent the standard, common, typical, traditional, whichever word you want to use, for Sword and Hammer as taught in the EPAK-derived Kempo systems.

Now just answer the damn question or admit you don't know what you're talking about and don't get what I'm asking.
 
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ATACX GYM

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Are you kidding?!?! You started the damn thread with them, Ras!! Use your own damn clips as a reference, that's what the entire threads been based on! It's been accepted since the beginning that they represent the standard, common, typical, traditional, whichever word you want to use, for Sword and Hammer as taught in the EPAK-derived Kempo systems.

Now just answer the damn question or admit you don't know what you're talking about and don't get what I'm asking.


This...because I asked you...

I insist that you present the specific video that you are referring to in order to make the possibility of misunderstanding in any way as minute as possible.

Explain how me insisting that you embed the video that you are referring to you in any way leads to me not knowing what you're talking about and not getting what you're asking. It would seem to me that this would be the part where a reasonable person would merely embed the video requested and say: "^^^^That video up there is what I'm referring to". Furthermore, if you've been willing to post 34 pages of long script with me in order to prove your point, then taking a few seconds to embed a video in order to make your position extra clear and your question highly specific wouldn't be an issue.

I would think that such a simple operation wouldn't excite a display of temper or a profane verbal response from a mature person.
 

Chris Parker

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Because you've ducked the question, argued about whether there even is a standard form (even though you yourself started with that), you were told what you look to for a reference, and yet you still said "can you show me what video you're talking about". Add to that the fact that, so far in the 34 pages of this thread, you have yet to show even a slight understanding of what I'm asking, even when I spoon fed you the answers.

Oh, and Ras? That was hardly profane. You haven't even got me going yet.
 
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ATACX GYM

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Because you've ducked the question, argued about whether there even is a standard form (even though you yourself started with that), you were told what you look to for a reference, and yet you still said "can you show me what video you're talking about". Add to that the fact that, so far in the 34 pages of this thread, you have yet to show even a slight understanding of what I'm asking, even when I spoon fed you the answers.

Oh, and Ras? That was hardly profane. You haven't even got me going yet.


You have spent more than an hour NOT posting a video that precisely and specifically embodies what you refer to. You have spent that same period of time referring over and over again to videos on this thread that are apparently exactly what I'm asking you to post. Please post that video so that we may progress beyond swapping posts that basically are me saying: "Chris Parker, please post the specific video that demonstrates the specific standard technique that you are referring to" and you saying "I'm not going to plus [ insert random ranting insult ]."

You know. You could just post the video. 2 minutes. It will result in progress and I can directly address the video to which you refer. Or you can continue to essentially engage in immature rants and insults sans video...which torpedoes progress...and is essentially a display of contrariness purely for the sake of being contrary.

1 request, Chris. Post the video which embodies specifically what you are referring to. I will promptly respond. If you refuse? We cannot go further.
 

Chris Parker

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Post one. This thread. Your post. Your videos.

You asked, I answered. I don't need to re-post them, you can just go to the first page and view them.

This has been asked for 34 pages, and you have yet to answer it.

I don't think you can.
 

Josh Oakley

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Ras, he means your part 1 and part 2 from the first post.

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