Sword and hammer pt. 1 and 2

Discussion in 'Kenpo / Kempo - Technical Discussion' started by ATACX GYM, Jan 14, 2012.

  1. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    You're really not, you know. You're coming across as the kid who plays dress-ups, imagining they're the big bad scary movie character without having the first clue about what reality is. And there's not really any point giving more remarkably appropriate anecdotal "evidence" for your "reality" (which always seems to be a "real life encounter" for any of a hundred thousand things you get questioned on....), as I'm saying it's how you come across in the way you present yourself here. If you don't want that image, change it.

    Oh boy.... son, you have yet to deal with my first post in this thread. You have yet to even grasp the basic comments made, and come back with any real answer.

    Tell you what, here it is again.

    You presented a few videos of the "traditional" way of performing Sword and Hammer. You then presented a few videos of attacks that that technique is not designed to handle, as a way of demonstrating what you think the problems with the "traditional" form is. Then, finally, you presented your video/s, which start with you showing the "traditional" form, before going into a technique which shares practically nothing in common with it as an "improved" version of Sword and Hammer.

    Through this, you were questioned as to why you believed your technique was a version of Sword and Hammer itself, rather than just your personal take on what you think would work against a different attack (to the one that Sword and Hammer is designed for), to which you have happened to use the same name. In other words, you were asked what makes a technique "Sword and Hammer" in the first place, and how were those aspects seen or manifested in your technique. All you have come back with is "but look how much more effective mine is!", while simultaneously missing the basis of the question itself (and making some huge mistakes along the way, some very questionable assumptions, and riding a path of arrogance that would have made Mohamed Ali blush in his hey-day... and Ali could at least genuinely back it up.

    It's not about which technique is more effective (although, again, I don't think you understand the traditional one enough to make any kind of comment), it's about what makes your technique a version of Sword and Hammer as you compared it, instead of just it's own technique, separate and distinct. Try again.

    And dude, I'm "highly opinionated"?

    No, it's not. See above... or, hell, the last 34 pages.

    Frankly, I don't know THAT you do that. I question pretty much each technique you've put up, as there are typically a number of issues to each of them.

    And kid, no matter what you think your skill level is, assuming that you can do things "better, against more scenarios, sooner, more skillfully" etc than myself is a dangerous game for you to play. You really don't have a clue what I can do, or how I can do it... but for the record, you aren't that impressive to me. That might be a clue as to how you compare in the real world.

    It's really not, you know. At all. The lack of depth of your training approach is shown in this thread, the idea of it being better is a personal opinion, and really of no importance here, you've made claims of "faster" that have been largely ridiculed (appropriately), the breadth of my training somewhat dwarfes yours when it comes down to it, and the idea of your training being "superior" but your comments not being based in ego is just laughable.

    You are far from the first in what you do, and far from the best. Seriously, get over yourself.

    You're making some rather bold (and incorrect) assumptions there, Ras. In fact, I'd say that I came to such an understanding years ago, but have since moved on to better understanding which has lead me to be able to look at the "traditional" techniques and see what they're actually teaching, how they're doing it, and why. You aren't anywhere near that level yet from any of your posts or videos here. You have techniques. I have techniques, but I have a hell of a lot more besides, which you aren't even close to.

    Wait a sec, have you forgotten who you're addressing Ras? I'm not a Kenpo guy, I don't have that technique... so no, I don't "think about it" in any way other than the context of this thread. And isn't this just you going back to the idea of "one technique for all situations" that we've already dealt with (and your flawed approach to that idea)?

    Garbage. I'm in a better position to handle variations because I'm not trying to fit one technique to everything, I'm applying my art (it's principles, tactics, strategies) to the needs as they arise. But that approach seems to be a fair bit above your pay-grade, as when prompted to discuss it, you couldn't, and came up with things that weren't of any relevance at all.

    Dude. Not Kenpo. I don't give a damn about showing you that I can "outperform" you in an art I don't train in. And again, that is really nothing to do with what the argument has been about.

    Not the argument, son.

    Re-read the thread. Recognise that none of this is what we've been saying, or talking about. You haven't outperformed me, as you have no idea what my performance level is (even leaving off the idea of my performance of an art I don't train in... no idea where your coming from there!), you haven't out-thought me (as you haven't followed anything from the first post onwards, and have instead been arguing something that doesn't address the comments and obervations I made), and you have shown that you absolutely don't understand anything better. How about you take some time to try to understand why the techniques are presented the way they are, rather than just say "that wouldn't work in real life" and ignore the actual point of them. Then you might start to come someway towards my level. At the moment, you are barely at my ankles.

    Before you come back for the "next", take on board what I've said. Try to understand that you're not being attacked for what your technique does, but for what you're claiming it is (a version of the traditional one), as you can't and haven't offered anything to support that contention.

    No, you're not. On all counts.
     
  2. Twin Fist

    Twin Fist Grandmaster

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    talking to this guy is like playing chess with a chicken. No matter how good your points are, all he does is knock over pieces, crap on the board and strut around like he won something.
     
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  3. MJS

    MJS Administrator Staff Member

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    Oh my...I guess dead things can come back to life. LOL! And here I thought the Travon Martin thread was a long one...LOL
     
  4. Twin Fist

    Twin Fist Grandmaster

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    Wish I knew.....I don't get to go to the study any more
     
  5. MJS

    MJS Administrator Staff Member

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    This! This, IMHO, I feel, is where Chris and I are on the same page. I do the same thing with my techniques as well. I'm at a point, where I put the techs on the backburner and just fall back on what Chris said here...the principles, tactics, strategies, etc.
     
  6. Josh Oakley

    Josh Oakley Senior Master

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    Which, from talking to my instructor, and from reading SGM Parker's writings and listening to his interviews, was the whose point of the techs anyway.

    Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2
     
  7. ATACX GYM

    ATACX GYM 2nd Black Belt

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    The most efficient way to download the principles, tactics strategies etc is to practice them in a structured training paradigm that rapidly downloads the importance of grasping the principles behind the techniques. Understanding the principles behind the techniques comes from copious amounts of reps in numerous different situations. Grasping the principles should and can be done sooner--like White Belt--with the proper combination of Alive Training, high levels of reps of single techniques sequences and multiple techniques and sequences against escalating resistance, and multiple drills and isolated sparring scenarios wherein you're called upon to use your skills.

    Chris Parker, is speaking from whatever experience he has. He is missing what is blatantly obvious to skilled experienced fighters. And all of that yakkity yakk and much of our disagreements would vanish if we were both on the mat together. He'd quickly see what I was talking about, and he'd quickly see that I already knew what he was talking about. However, Chris is apparently constrained by his instructor to NOT visually display via video his sublime mastery of technique, principle and strategy, so he crafts posts that make it clear that he and I have no common ground.

    He contends that my S&H isn't a version of the "traditional" S&H. If he refers to the most popular variant of Sword and Hammer? That expression IS NOT THEE "Sword and Hammer". He fails to grasp that there IS NO "TRADITIONAL" Sword and Hammer. The Sword and Hammer--as defined by Big Red--is really a "loose guideline" designed for instructors to create THEIR OWN "Sword and Hammer". The Tracy technique "Attack the Circle" fits into the equation. My expression does. The more popular variant mistakenly referred to as The Ideal Phase Sword and Hammer fits.

    MJS, from our previous phone conversation you should know directly...the method I champion far more speedily, thoroughly and comprehensively achieves this desired effect than the extant Kenpo training paradigm.
     
  8. Twin Fist

    Twin Fist Grandmaster

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    bwak bwak bwak

    thats all i hear
     
  9. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    However what you've presented is not practicing them in a structured training method which focuses on the principles. In fact, that's what the "standard" form of the technique does... you know, the one that you don't like? So your argument is that you need a training method which is precisely what everyone else uses, because what everyone else does doesn't work?

    I'm speaking from a hell of a lot of experience, son. And some have suggested that I'm already a skilled, experienced fighter. From watching your videos, no, I don't see that you know what you're talking about. I see that you have some physical skills, but that's it. And my constraints are something that you still don't seem to get, so I wouldn't recommend engaging in any guesswork there.

    Oh, and I don't craft posts to demonstrate that we have no common ground, I structure arguments intended to get an answer. And your answers have shown that you don't really have much knowledge or understanding, when it all comes down to it.

    Yeah, I do. So do quite a number of others here. And you have not been able to identify why you think your technique is a version of it, despite being asked for 34 pages now. So can you answer it, if you're still claiming it? What makes your technique Sword and Hammer as presented (even as a loose guideline) by Big Red? What is listed as being necessary, and how to you have it in your expression?
     
  10. ATACX GYM

    ATACX GYM 2nd Black Belt

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    Let's do that here too. Saves time and energy. This way we don't talk PAST or AT each other, we talk TO each other and have a tightly focused discussion with a terminus in sight.
     
  11. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    I only really asked one question, Ras, and I've repeated the same damn question for 34 pages.

    What makes you believe that your technique is a version of the "standard" form as you present it as being?

    Seriously, 34 pages, and you haven't answered that from my first post on page one (the second post of the thread).
     
  12. ATACX GYM

    ATACX GYM 2nd Black Belt

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    What would you define as the "standard form" Sword and Hammer? Please provide a video example.
     
  13. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    See the first goddamn post, Ras. You presented it yourself in three different clips, then at the start of each and every one of yours.
     
  14. ATACX GYM

    ATACX GYM 2nd Black Belt

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    I insist that you present the specific video that you are referring to in order to make the possibility of misunderstanding in any way as minute as possible.
     
  15. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    Are you kidding?!?! You started the damn thread with them, Ras!! Use your own damn clips as a reference, that's what the entire threads been based on! It's been accepted since the beginning that they represent the standard, common, typical, traditional, whichever word you want to use, for Sword and Hammer as taught in the EPAK-derived Kempo systems.

    Now just answer the damn question or admit you don't know what you're talking about and don't get what I'm asking.
     
  16. ATACX GYM

    ATACX GYM 2nd Black Belt

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    This...because I asked you...

    Explain how me insisting that you embed the video that you are referring to you in any way leads to me not knowing what you're talking about and not getting what you're asking. It would seem to me that this would be the part where a reasonable person would merely embed the video requested and say: "^^^^That video up there is what I'm referring to". Furthermore, if you've been willing to post 34 pages of long script with me in order to prove your point, then taking a few seconds to embed a video in order to make your position extra clear and your question highly specific wouldn't be an issue.

    I would think that such a simple operation wouldn't excite a display of temper or a profane verbal response from a mature person.
     
  17. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    Because you've ducked the question, argued about whether there even is a standard form (even though you yourself started with that), you were told what you look to for a reference, and yet you still said "can you show me what video you're talking about". Add to that the fact that, so far in the 34 pages of this thread, you have yet to show even a slight understanding of what I'm asking, even when I spoon fed you the answers.

    Oh, and Ras? That was hardly profane. You haven't even got me going yet.
     
  18. ATACX GYM

    ATACX GYM 2nd Black Belt

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    You have spent more than an hour NOT posting a video that precisely and specifically embodies what you refer to. You have spent that same period of time referring over and over again to videos on this thread that are apparently exactly what I'm asking you to post. Please post that video so that we may progress beyond swapping posts that basically are me saying: "Chris Parker, please post the specific video that demonstrates the specific standard technique that you are referring to" and you saying "I'm not going to plus [ insert random ranting insult ]."

    You know. You could just post the video. 2 minutes. It will result in progress and I can directly address the video to which you refer. Or you can continue to essentially engage in immature rants and insults sans video...which torpedoes progress...and is essentially a display of contrariness purely for the sake of being contrary.

    1 request, Chris. Post the video which embodies specifically what you are referring to. I will promptly respond. If you refuse? We cannot go further.
     
  19. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    Post one. This thread. Your post. Your videos.

    You asked, I answered. I don't need to re-post them, you can just go to the first page and view them.

    This has been asked for 34 pages, and you have yet to answer it.

    I don't think you can.
     
  20. Josh Oakley

    Josh Oakley Senior Master

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    Ras, he means your part 1 and part 2 from the first post.

    Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2
     

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