Students, teachers, and rights to free speech.

[hardheadjarhead]

This is disturbing. Very disturbing.

I suspect both conservatives and liberals will agree with that assessment.


http://www.suntimes.com/output/otherviews/cst-edt-ref04.html



Regards,



Steve

 

[michaeledward]

How did one half of American high school students become perfectly comfortable with government censorship of media?

As it is very difficult to find an opposing point of view in American Media, it could be that the students are discerning that opposition is being censored.

Let's take a short look at the President's State of the Union Address. What kind of opposition (loyal or otherwise) was presented by the media? The show 'Hardball', hosted by Chris Matthews (accusedly a 'Liberal') had seven people discuss the President's address; Six were Republicans, One was Democrat.

White House Communications Director - Nicole Devenish
Republican Senator from Mississippi - Trent Lott
Republican Senator from Arizona - John McCain
Conservative Radio Host - Laura Ingraham
Former Representative from Florida - Joe Scarborough
Actor & Bush Supporter - Ron Silver

Democratic Strategist - Hilary Rosen

Doesn't that seem a bit like voluntary censorship? If the public can't get an opposing point of view from a show titled 'HARDBALL', where are they going to find it?

 

[Melissa426]

Is it the education system that is the problem? Or the apathy of the students?

I am curious what were the issues that forced college students to have to take "re-education" courses? Sounds alarmingly Orwellian.

Peace,
Melissa

 

[ghostdog2]

Scarey.

Like Melissa, I'd love to hear who(m) had to be re-educated about what.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Is it the education system that is the problem? Or the apathy of the students?

I am curious what were the issues that forced college students to have to take "re-education" courses? Sounds alarmingly Orwellian.

Peace,
Melissa

I don't doubt apathy plays a role, but the article clearly indicates the educational system is at fault in those cases cited.

Note the "re-education" courses were directed at those students who attempted to voice their opinions, and were censured for it.

The Foundation for Individual Rights in Education keeps an archive of cases that you might find interesting should you elect to browse them:

http://www.thefire.org/

http://www.thefire.org/index.php/case/

It seems to be an unbiased site, its cases ranging from that of a professor fired for his anti-war stance to that of an organization banned from showing "The Passion of the Christ" on campus.

FIRE seems to be respected by people on both sides of the political spectrum, although a number of decidedly conservative associations and news organizations give it a great deal of support.

This may blow some of you away, but I agree with some of the stances of those conservatives who support FIRE.

Whoa. The Seventh Level of Hell just got chilly. Get me a sweater.


Regards,



Steve

 

[shesulsa]

Egads.

Could it be that teachers are too busy teaching youth how to pass standardized tests that all the children get left behind as the Constitution goes sailing out the window?

The elimination of scholastic publications (school newspapers) is only a little surprising and the re-education classes are downright enraging.

Holy ****!

Perhaps Orwell would have done better to title his famous work "2024."

 

[Tgace]

I remember when I was in college, students used to go to speeches by people they didnt agree with just to heckle....didnt 20/20 do a spot on that once?

I remember there being epic battles between school administration and students on the school paper back in the 80's. Looks like were still on the same road. Question is, is this really "new" or just a realization of a problem that has been long in the making?

 

[bignick]

I had read about this study a week or two ago and I still don't know what to think...

I think it was summed up best as just disturbing...disturbing that there are people that think that members of society should not be able to have a voice...

 

[Zepp]

...Once the First Amendment was read to them, one third of the students felt it went "too far" in granting free speech and one half thought that the government should have the right to approve news stories...

So much for the notion that education makes people more liberal, eh?

 

[Melissa426]

HHJH,

Thanks for the posts from FIRE. Being out of academia for 15 years has left me completely out of the loop on these matters.
After a brief scan of several cases, a couple observations:
1. Does it not seem that it's mostly the administration, not the students or professors, who plays the part of Big Brother, trying to curtail the rights of students or student organizations, probably in the interest of keeping everybody happy? Including the big-time money donors?
2. This, of the cases I read, I fthought hit the nail on the head.
http://www.thefire.org/index.php/case/645.html
Read the second paragraph. "Trumpeters of tolerance intolerant"

Peace,
Melissa

 

[heretic888]

So much for the notion that education makes people more liberal, eh?

Liberal education makes people more liberal.

 

[modarnis]

>>I am curious what were the issues that forced college students to have to take "re-education" courses? Sounds alarmingly Orwellian.>>

A great read on this topic is Tammy Bruce's The New Thought Police

 

[loki09789]

HHJH,

Thanks for the posts from FIRE. Being out of academia for 15 years has left me completely out of the loop on these matters.
After a brief scan of several cases, a couple observations:
1. Does it not seem that it's mostly the administration, not the students or professors, who plays the part of Big Brother, trying to curtail the rights of students or student organizations, probably in the interest of keeping everybody happy? Including the big-time money donors?
2. This, of the cases I read, I fthought hit the nail on the head.
http://www.thefire.org/index.php/case/645.html
Read the second paragraph. "Trumpeters of tolerance intolerant"

Peace,
Melissa

Students are children,not adults covered by the Constitution/laws. Children are 'protected' because the constitution and laws dictate what fair and reasonable treatment of them will/should be.

Teachers and Administrators have a responsibility to teach students more than just content area matters. They also are teaching conduct, citizenship and work ethic. I think supervising (at times with prior approval) student selections, comments, clothing and such is fine as long as it is done reasonably and equitably.

It's a damned if you do/don't situation.

If administrators/teachers don't enforce and supervise conduct standards (even to the point of 'censorship' in some people's eyes) to uphold standards then we/they aren't 'preparing students for the real world' when they scratch themselves in public, say inappropriate things in work/professional settings, have NO concept of appropriate work attire for a business setting.

We/they do establish standards and enforce them we are the 'thought police.'

I would be careful to put too much wt. on a study with the base line of 'private High Schools' and not the general public.

Students are apathetic about learning at times. If they don't know the 1st Amendment is it because they didn't pay attention, read their student handbooks or some other 'personal accountability' issue or is it because 'no one told that to me...'

We may be looking at it from the perspective of 'civil liberties' but the students, to put another spin on this, MAY be saying that someone (heck the government in this case) should be stepping in to stop all the trash that has found its way into the media and entertainment.... who knows exactly what they meant when they responded. We only know what spin the interviewers put on the results.

And, interview/surveys fall into unreliability ranges when you take into account whether the person was being honest or understood the interviewer clearly (and in the process of explaining, how might the interviewer have skewed the interviewee's perspectives).

 

[rmcrobertson]

Tammy Bruce is a LA-based FOX news commentator and ideologue, who belongs to the growing crowd of, "I used-to-be-a-liberal-but-then-I-saw-the-light-about-their-alliance-with-Satan," types who get paid very well indeed for screaming incoherently, in print and on the tube.

If you get on her website, you can see pictures of her with Sean Hannity and G. Gordon, "When the ATF comes through your door, go for the head shot," Liddy.

Try to find an actual source for information instead.

 

[Tgace]

Excellent points Paul..when we were that age what was it that we were truely interested in? Lucky we were never caught. Seriously if we really listened to what teen agers say and think we would think that civilization was ending...I remember.

 

[Gin-Gin]

I think it was summed up best as just disturbing...disturbing that there are people that think that members of society should not be able to have a voice...

Ditto!