Would you move there if you knew?

[MA-Caver]

This article on Yahoo/AP speaks about a sex offender who is being sued by a real estate developer for loss of sales.
Basically by law the developer was required to inform potential buyers that there was a convicted sex-offender living in that neighborhood. The developer stated that both people refused to buy because of that reason and that the offender had attempted to blackmail the developer.
On that part it states that it's alleged. Probably to help win his suit.
I've a friend who is a reformed child sex-offender (yes, it is possible) yet the neighbors where he lives (a relatively new subdivision) are all aware of his conviction. Far as I know none have moved away or basically none have complained even though the neighborhood is full of children and new homes/sales happen all the time around there. Ironically across the street from his home lives a cop.
Question in my mind is that if you (with children) were prospective buyers and found this great home in a great neighborhood near great shopping/schools and bla bla bla... but the only black cloud is that it's also home to a convicted child molester... would you still move there?
I say that my friend is a reformed offender. He went through intensive therapy (a clinic with a 98% success rate ... the other 2 % go to prison) and has since married and has three kids of his own. Far as I'm aware of he's had no inclination towards children since being released by the therapist.
From what he tells me no-one in his neighborhood is treating him any differently dispite their knowledge of his past offense.
But the question remains... if you knew would you? Is it akin to putting your children in harms way, waiting for the possibility no matter how slight?
Just wondering.

 

[Simon Curran]

I don't have children and as such could not directly answer your question, but this is something that I feel very strongly about, after having heard about a neighbour to my grandma and the neighbour's son systematically abusing the daughter, and when she inevitably fell pregnant, shoving her in a bath of hot water due to her young body hæmmoraging.

The girl in question is by no means psychologically stable now, and I would imagine that this is the case for most victims of sexual abuse, generally I am quite a tolerant person, but in the case of sex offenders I believe there should be no easy way out for them, in my opinion it is worse than murder, although it is terrible for a murdered person's family, once a person is dead they are dead.
A victim of sexual abuse, however, is forced to live with the trauma every day for the rest of their life, and as such I believe the people who do such things should also be forced to live the rest of their life in fear/self loathing/confusion etc.
I would think that is perfectly reasonable to inform parents of a convicted sex offender in their midst, because any responsible parent would want to save their child from a life of torment.
I assume I am going to take a bunch of slack because of this post, but I am not in favour of forgiveness for someone who could perform such a terrible act.

 

[Adept]

If I knew, I don't believe I would feel comfortable moving there. 'What if...' is a powerful feeling.

I agree with Simon, in that I feel punishments for the abuse of children should be much harsher. Serious abuse should carry the same penalty as murder. Also, child sex offenders have (I believe) one of the highest rates of recidivism of any type of criminal.

Not something I would feel at all comfortable with in my neighbourhood.

 

[Shu2jack]

I don't have children and as such could not directly answer your question, but this is something that I feel very strongly about, after having heard about a neighbour to my grandma and the neighbour's son systematically abusing the daughter, and when she inevitably fell pregnant, shoving her in a bath of hot water due to her young body hæmmoraging.

The girl in question is by no means psychologically stable now, and I would imagine that this is the case for most victims of sexual abuse, generally I am quite a tolerant person, but in the case of sex offenders I believe there should be no easy way out for them, in my opinion it is worse than murder, although it is terrible for a murdered person's family, once a person is dead they are dead.
A victim of sexual abuse, however, is forced to live with the trauma every day for the rest of their life, and as such I believe the people who do such things should also be forced to live the rest of their life in fear/self loathing/confusion etc.
I would think that is perfectly reasonable to inform parents of a convicted sex offender in their midst, because any responsible parent would want to save their child from a life of torment.
I assume I am going to take a bunch of slack because of this post, but I am not in favour of forgiveness for someone who could perform such a terrible act.

I totally agree. I personally believe that rape and other forms of sexual assault are right up there with murder. If you sexually assault a person and the victim's family, significant other, the victim themselves do not end the offender's life, then the offender deserves what ever else happens to him legally or socially.

 

[michaeledward]

I am wondering where Mr. Collins could move safely?

http://www.acic.org/soff/index.php?ac:getdetail=1&id=73550

Presumably, he was convicted of his crime and has served out his sentence. It seems to me that his 'debt' to society has been paid. This lawsuit is attempting to alter the terms of that 'debt'. It is one of the challenging aspects of the sex offender registries througout the country.

If he can never become a member of the society because of the sex offender registry, what are we to do with Mr. Collins and the 4,682 other registered offenders in Arkansas?

Lastly, it does not appear from the article that Arkansas Law required the developer to take any action to notify potential buyers in his subdivision. Nor does Arkansas law require the local Police department to distribute the information about the crime to the neighborhood.

(provides - not requires)

Arkansas law provides for law enforcement agencies to release information on registered sex offenders to the public for purposes of public safety. This information may consist of the name and location of the offender, but will not contain any information on the identity of the victim. Regulations on the release of information were developed by the Commission on Child Abuse, Rape and Domestic Violence, however the responsibility for maintaining or amending those regulations now rests with the Sex Offender Assessment Committee, located within the Department of Correction.
Details on those regulations may be obtained from that committee at (870) 850-8429.

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Additional information concerning registration under this act may be obtained by contacting the Arkansas Crime Information Center, One Capitol Mall 4D-200, Little Rock, AR 72201, (501) 682-2222, or [email protected].

[/font]

 

[Dr. Kenpo]

You know, all sorts of people have lived in all neighborhoods since who knows when. There was a time that I remember when African Americans weren't allowed, because of color. Now, in this so called "political correct" age we live in, we have to be notified because of sex offenders. Is that a good idea, ok, I can buy that, but people should always be vigilant of their surroundings, and take care of their family. But to exclude certain people........I don't know. Are we going to start excluding those who have Leporsy now also?

If one wants exclusion, live in a gated, exclusive community. That way, your money will buy you what you want.

In my estimation, if one doesn't bother me, I won't bother you, IMHO

Respects

 

[Simon Curran]

To be honest, I don't think that it is society that is owed a debt, so the debt can never be paid, the only person owed a debt is the victim, and the debt owed to them is one that can, and will never be paid.

 

[graywolf]

There are no reformed children sex offenders.

Cordially, Howard Vanderbeck

 

[graywolf]

There are no reformed children sex offenders.

Cordially, Howard Vanderbeck

 

[kenpo tiger]

I honestly don't know.

My children are men now and can take care of themselves. When they were little, I watched them like a hawk, to the best of my abilities. As parents, can we responsibly 'cocoon' our children from the world? Would I intentionally put my children in harm's way? Not on your life.

I would still rip out the heart of anyone who tries to harm them.

 

[michaeledward]

On another point, probably completely irrelevant, but does the lawsuit have any standing. Doesn't the developer need to show an actual 'loss' in order to bring suit.

Saying people have decided not to buy a property because of a neighbor isn't really a 'loss' in legal terms, is it?

When I was in sales, we learned there were always two reasons the buyer didn't buy - the reason that sounds good, and the real reason. Maybe the development is ugly, but it sounds better to say you are not buying because there is a sex offender in the neighborhood.

Further, the developer still owns the properties. It is not as if the property was destroyed. Perhaps the market value is not as good as he hoped, but that is the definition of 'market value'; what the market will bear.

 

[Shu2jack]

You know, all sorts of people have lived in all neighborhoods since who knows when. There was a time that I remember when African Americans weren't allowed, because of color. Now, in this so called "political correct" age we live in, we have to be notified because of sex offenders. Is that a good idea, ok, I can buy that, but people should always be vigilant of their surroundings, and take care of their family. But to exclude certain people........I don't know. Are we going to start excluding those who have Leporsy now also?

If one wants exclusion, live in a gated, exclusive community. That way, your money will buy you what you want.

In my estimation, if one doesn't bother me, I won't bother you, IMHO

I have to disagree. One does not choose to be black, white, indian, asian, etc. and race does not do anybody harm. I don't know of any sane people who would choose to have leporsy, AIDS, cancer, or any other medical issue. People who rape a woman, molest a child, etc. made a choice to hurt another and what they do leaves a perminate scar that will haunt the victim for the rest of their life.

Once someone is no longer in prision, then they are free to do as they please within reason. Just like I am free to do what I please within reason. That person molested a 7 year old boy who now needs counseling and raped a young woman who was saving herself for her finacee, but now has to live with the fact that her first was a rape, not her husband. He can buy that house right next mine because he is a free man, but I am free to let him know, along with my neighborhood, that he will find that his social life will be a living hell.

Do I want a gated community? No, but I want a form of social control. I don't want my kids thinking that you can molest/rape someone, spend a few years in jail if you get caught, then go on and live as normal. I want people to see that if you do such a heinous crime that when you get caught, you will do your time, then when you get out you will never find peace. To me that is a far more effective deterrent to crime.

 

[Tgace]

You know, all sorts of people have lived in all neighborhoods since who knows when. There was a time that I remember when African Americans weren't allowed, because of color. Now, in this so called "political correct" age we live in, we have to be notified because of sex offenders. Is that a good idea, ok, I can buy that, but people should always be vigilant of their surroundings, and take care of their family. But to exclude certain people........I don't know. Are we going to start excluding those who have Leporsy now also?

If one wants exclusion, live in a gated, exclusive community. That way, your money will buy you what you want.

In my estimation, if one doesn't bother me, I won't bother you, IMHO

Respects

Sounds like you could get a sweet deal on a new house then. :shrug:

 

[ghostdog2]

[CODEh][/CODE] Now, in this so called "political correct" age we live in, we ave to be notified because of sex offenders. Dr. Kenpo[CODE] [/CODE]

Political correctness has absolutely nothing to do with this issue. And to compare legitimate concern about child sexual abuse to racial prejudice, or a desire for "exclusiveness" is just dumb.

It seems to me that his 'debt' to society has been paid.

The state prescribes the penalty in these cases. Not always is it limited to prison time. Quite often, registration and the accompanying publication of that information is part of the sentence. So, the offender's "debt" is still due and this is as much a part of his sentence as anything else.

Query: Suppose the realtor withheld this info and the purchaser's child was attacked. Bigger suit?
Q: Suppose the realtor withheld this info and the purchasers found out when they tried to sell and couldn't? Bigger suit?

Not really a tough call. Some crimes can't be punished enough and an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

 

[michaeledward]

The state prescribes the penalty in these cases. Not always is it limited to prison time. Quite often, registration and the accompanying publication of that information is part of the sentence. So, the offender's "debt" is still due and this is as much a part of his sentence as anything else.

Why not just keep the convicted in jail forever?

And actually, the 'penalty' for sexual conviction is the term in prison and the follow up probationary period.

Registration and public notification is not part of the penalty. It is imposed by the legislature, not the criminal justice system.

Not really a tough call. Some crimes can't be punished enough and an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Again, this begs the question, where can the 4,683 registered sex offenders in Arkansas move without creating this issue of 'home values'?

 

[Kenpo Mama]

Hey there Ralph,

A timely question, considering we just received notice from our local PTA that a convicted sex offender has moved into the neighborhood. Being the diligent mother that i am, i immediately logged onto the site parentsformeganslaw.com and entered my zip code. I received the information i needed in order to alert my children making sure they are aware of the situation. And as always reviewed all personal safety guidelines and rules.

Would this force me to consider moving? No, I think not. I maintain that awareness is our first line of defense. Would i change my mind about moving into a neighborhood that housed a convicted sex offender? Probably not. I truly believe we need to be prepared for these situations as they arise.

Have a great night!

Donna :ultracool

 

[modarnis]

>>Registration and public notification is not part of the penalty. It is imposed by the legislature, not the criminal justice system.>>


The legislature also sets the penalty range for crimes. Those are the bounaries the justice system has to work in for any given offense. Registration is a statutory administrative sanction triggered by conviction for specific offenses. It is not unlike the administrative loss of license for a drunk driving conviction.

Here in Connecticut, the sex offender registration is 2 tiered. Certain offenses trigger a ten year registration, others lifetime registration

 

[Feisty Mouse]

Hmmm.

It would make me think twice, probably. But as Kenpo Mama said, if given the information and aware of the situation, I would feel better about it.

MACaver - I think perhaps your friend is doing well in his situation because he is married and has kids, and seems to be doing OK. I think it would be different if he were single and lived alone.

That's great about his rehab, btw.

 

[Deuce]

I think a lot of my decision would be based on the actual offender and the cumstances of the charges and current situation. Answers to questions such as: How many sex offenses commited, how long since the events, did they know the children, circumstances surrounding the events, are they now involved with another consenting adult, and do I believe that the offender will commit similar crimes again?

Some offenders will seem much more of a threat than others. I would have to be convinced that my children were not in harms way beofore deciding to stay or move into a neighborhood with a sex offender. Might as well reduce the chances of a sex offense involving your children if you can.

Sheldon

 

[Ray]

Basically by law the developer was required to inform potential buyers that there was a convicted sex-offender living in that neighborhood....On that part it states that it's alleged. Probably to help win his suit.

No need to say alleged if there was a conviction then the word is "convicted."

... would you still move there?

No, I wouldn't. Keeping a safe environment is one of my fundamentals of self-defense.

I say that my friend is a reformed offender. He went through intensive therapy (a clinic with a 98% success rate ... the other 2 % go to prison) and has since married and has three kids of his own. Far as I'm aware of he's had no inclination towards children since being released by the therapist.

I don't know that I believe all that is said in those sentances. I'd have to see the supporting data. In my life, I have seen several "reformed" people who end up returning to old patterns. The older I get, the more I trust people and also like to peruse the evidence for confirmation that my trust is not misplaced.