Street BJJ

[drop bear]

Now that is funny drop bear!

Well it is one of the secrets to fighting. You create a situation that you have the advantages. Described to me as the paper scissors rock effect. He goes to ground because his attack,defence and escape is strong there. If your attack,defence,escaped is weak you fight to change position. Or with masterful leg lock defence you enter and in that exchange and he has to fight to change position.

 

[drop bear]

no not a good enough reason to fight. I have no doubt one of the professionals that have been listed here will break my leg and there isnt much I can do about it but as I cry in pain ill be dumping 9mm rounds into his body. They are far better trained then I am so I would be justified in defending my life. But the average Joe on the street and part time MMA guy well I'll but my training up against them anytime and I have many times.

That is what I said.

 

[ballen0351]

That is what I said.

No

 

[Tony Dismukes]

If I am caught. Plus defending against heel hooks, knee bars and leg locks is some thing that I am thoroughly familiar with.

I'm reasonably good at leg lock defense myself, but I'm not stopping Masakazu Iminari or Ryan Hall in a leg lock battle. A man's got to know his limitations.

no not a good enough reason to fight. I have no doubt one of the professionals that have been listed here will break my leg and there isnt much I can do about it but as I cry in pain ill be dumping 9mm rounds into his body. They are far better trained then I am so I would be justified in defending my life. But the average Joe on the street and part time MMA guy well I'll but my training up against them anytime and I have many times.

That's why I suggested walking away. It avoids that whole having to shoot someone unpleasantness. I'm no Olympic sprinter, but I'm pretty sure I can power walk faster than Ryan Hall can butt scoot.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I'm reasonably good at leg lock defense myself, but I'm not stopping Masakazu Iminari or Ryan Hall in a leg lock battle. A man's got to know his limitations.

A man definitely needs to know his limitations!

 

[ballen0351]

That's why I suggested walking away. It avoids that whole having to shoot someone unpleasantness. I'm no Olympic sprinter, but I'm pretty sure I can power walk faster than Ryan Hall can butt scoot.

That would depend on why im having a confrontation in the first place.

 

[ballen0351]

I'm reasonably good at leg lock defense myself, but I'm not stopping Masakazu Iminari or Ryan Hall in a leg lock battle. A man's got to know his limitations.

But again we have already said the chance of us engaged with one of these very rare "experts" in leg locks is pretty far fetched

 

[Hanzou]

No but interesting that you would try to put words in my mouth to sway the conversation! Butt scooting in an attempt to pull guard would be guard pulling or a variant of it!

Doing a roll into a leg lock would be just that a form of open guard in my opinion. Though we both know there are a lot of variations of this!

Listen, I know you have a fixation with "the guard" and all variants of it. Cool, that is great and there is nothing wrong with it. I have a developed guard game myself. However, I'm not rolling into a leg lock, pulling guard or any variant of it on the street. That is all lower percentage than getting a dominant position such as: back, mount, half mount, crossbody, On top in the half guard, etc.

As to elite level athletes in MMA/BJJ deciding to roll into a leg lock on the street? I wish them luck with it!

Well again, the argument was never about what you or I could do from that position, the argument was that Tonon, Inamari, Cummings, Cornelius, Hall, etc. are all incredibly dangerous individuals from that position.

Hence why I said that I would recommend running if one of them was butt scooting towards you with bad intentions.

 

[Hanzou]

But again we have already said the chance of us engaged with one of these very rare "experts" in leg locks is pretty far fetched

Again, the point being that while it's amusing to think of a person butt scooting in a fight, there are people out there who are perfectly capable of using that position to utterly destroy you (or at least your leg).

 

[Tony Dismukes]

That would depend on why im having a confrontation in the first place.

Well, you being an LEO, you might be in a situation where you have a duty to engage. In that case if Masakazu Iminari is aggressively butt-scooting at you and won't obey commands to stop, I would recommend tasing him before he has a chance to get hold of your legs.

Me being a civilian, I'm going to play it safe and just stroll on out of there.

But again we have already said the chance of us engaged with one of these very rare "experts" in leg locks is pretty far fetched

There's a decent possibility I might have a chance for a friendly match with Ryan Hall or someone of that calibre one of these days. (Heck, I got to roll with Rich Franklin back when I was a white belt). I'll get my butt kicked, but that's the beauty of being able to tap. (I want no part of an unfriendly match, but that's pretty unlikely.)

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

.
Hence why I said that I would recommend running if one of them was butt scooting towards you with bad intentions.

If one of them is butt scooting at anyone on the street they would have seriously lost a marble. Not that I think any of them would do so. Hence why the "funny video" at the beginning of this thread. You do understand that they were making fun of butt scooting? You see to them it was a joke!

 

[ballen0351]

Again, the point being that while it's amusing to think of a person butt scooting in a fight, there are people out there who are perfectly capable of using that position to utterly destroy you (or at least your leg).

sure there are a very very few freaks of nature out there. But if we are going to Be real here the chance of getting into a street fight with them is pretty slim. They have far more to loose then most people.

 

[ballen0351]

Well, you being an LEO, you might be in a situation where you have a duty to engage. In that case if Masakazu Iminari is aggressively butt-scooting at you and won't obey commands to stop, I would recommend tasing him before he has a chance to get hold of your legs.

Me being a civilian, I'm going to play it safe and just stroll on out of there.



There's a decent possibility I might have a chance for a friendly match with Ryan Hall or someone of that calibre one of these days. (Heck, I got to roll with Rich Franklin back when I was a white belt). I'll get my butt kicked, but that's the beauty of being able to tap. (I want no part of an unfriendly match, but that's pretty unlikely.)

I wasn't really speaking in terms of friendly rolling. The topic was street fights.

 

[Flying Crane]

My proof is showing a Bjj elite grappler utilizing their body in a similar fashion to that of the sitting position. Inamari can hit the exact same takedown from the seated (butt scoot) position. And yeah, plenty of guys have been taken down with that entry under full resistance.

There's plenty of examples of that in the video Tony posted.

Ok, as long as we are recognizing that these guys are elites (your own word). Elites are, well, elite. They can do things most other people can't do, including other people who might be pretty good. So I hope you aren't suggesting this should be a good approach that you would recommend.

 

[Hanzou]

If one of them is butt scooting at anyone on the street they would have seriously lost a marble. Not that I think any of them would do so. Hence why the "funny video" at the beginning of this thread. You do understand that they were making fun of butt scooting? You see to them it was a joke!

Well sure, which is why I stated that it was a very humorous video. However, my point is that there are Bjj guys who can pretty easily take people apart from that exact same position.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Maybe, they would always have a chance but have reduced their odds by a lot from the get go.

 

[Hanzou]

Ok, as long as we are recognizing that these guys are elites (your own word). Elites are, well, elite. They can do things most other people can't do, including other people who might be pretty good. So I hope you aren't suggesting this should be a good approach that you would recommend.

If you have the appropriate skill level, then why not?

 

[Hanzou]

Maybe, they would always have a chance but have reduced their odds by a lot from the get go.

How would they have reduced their odds by a lot? You think the average person can stop that leg lock sequence?

I have almost a decade of Bjj experience, and I couldn't stop that leg lock sequence.

 

[ballen0351]

How would they have reduced their odds by a lot? You think the average person can stop that leg lock sequence?

I have almost a decade of Bjj experience, and I couldn't stop that leg lock sequence.

you may not stop it from a very few elite but im sure you could if a normal guy tried it

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

How would they have reduced their odds by a lot? You think the average person can stop that leg lock sequence?

I have almost a decade of Bjj experience, and I couldn't stop that leg lock sequence.

Because they have limited their mobility to a very small skill set. They have limited their ability to move by sitting on their *** while their opponent is standing. The opponent has the ability to move faster because he is on his feet. He also has the ability to strike downward with more power. (physics) This is a huge tactical disadvantage. If you butt scoot on the street you are reducing your odds and giving an opponent an advantage. This is pretty easy to understand! We are not teaching butt scooting to our military or law enforcement! Nor is it even remotely a go to move for personal protection.

Not to mention that in the real world we are a tool bearing monkey. Most guy's have some kind of tool on them ie. knife or gun. Roughly about 30% or more. Last BJJ party I was at everyone had a knife even if they had never trained with one. I counted because I notice such things. Out of about 15 guy's everyone had a clip showing and three were actively carrying a concealed handgun. If you are on your butt and the other guy has a tool I pity you!

Listen, I like the guard, open guard as well and believe everyone should train in them. Especially women as a potential counter rape skill set. However, no one and I mean no one not any BJJ instructor that I know is going to recommend butt scooting for self-defense.