Staff training.

Discussion in 'General Weapons Discussion' started by Ironbear24, Nov 18, 2016.

  1. Ironbear24

    Ironbear24 Master of Arts

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    It is part of the curriculum at the place I been going to once you get into some higher colors. I just have no drive for it, no passion, but sadly there will come a point where it will be necessary to advance higher.

    What makes you enjoy the staff? I might be able to get inspired here.
     
  2. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Hitting people with it.
     
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  3. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple Master of Arts

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    I dont. I've messed around with it, and when I was in high school, my friends and I would goof around with it by sparing with each other...I enjoyed that. But the actual kata involved with it (which I'm guessing is the curriculum part you are learning), I just got through it so that I could advance and have since forgotten it. I suppose that would have to change if I ever taught...
     
  4. Kickboxer101

    Kickboxer101 Master Black Belt

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    There is a staff set in kenpo but in my place its not really a recruitment, you can learn it if you want to learn it but if you don't no ones going to fail you on it. To me weapon training is a waste of time for me. I'm not going to be carrying around a staff or a pair of nunchucks so ill never used them if I'm attacked so to me there's no interest. No disrespect to those who do train with weapons good on you it's a skill ill never have but yeah I don't want to learn how to use a big stick. I fully believe in martial arts being empty handed. Especially in kenpo in their creed "I come to you with only karate my empty hands" and the ending "then here are my weapons karate my empty hands" so it kind of contradicts itself by training weapons. But I think most schools don't bother with it that much and really only use it for competition.
     
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  5. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Grandmaster

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    Did you guys learn the two staff sets that are standard in most Parker and Tracy lineage kenpo?
     
  6. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Grandmaster

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    Personally, I have found that my weapons training, including staff, has helped understand and develop my skill with the fundamental principles upon which my system is built.

    Whether or not you think you will ever need to actually fight with the weapon is pretty irrelevant. The real value is in the physical education that properly taught and properly understood and properly trained weapons practice gives you. It translates very strongly into empty-hand capabilities.

    Notice what I said there: properly, properly, properly. That is really important. Otherwise, yes, it is a waste of time and you get very little from it.

    And, not all weapons methods or forms/kata, are created equally. Some of them are junk. Again, a waste of time and likely to be uninspiring and will kill your enthusiasm for it. Because often people can tell when they are learning something that is BS, even when they don't know much about it.
     
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  7. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    Agree with Flying Crane.

    Learning to project and control power with a Bo (in fact most non edged or projectile weapons) is instructive to empty handed work as well. I didn't believe that at first, but I do now. Walking through a Bo kata or a Sai kata with empty hands is eye opening.
     
  8. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Grandmaster

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    I've found that it really emphasizes the full-body connection. It is magnified in weapons practice, and just makes empty hands stronger.
     
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  9. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple Master of Arts

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    Nope. One style of kenpo that I practiced did learn those, so I saw them, but I was only there for a year. It was Shaolin kempo where I learned a staff form, and I haven't seen it in other styles.
     
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  10. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Grandmaster

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    Ok, I don't know anything about the shaolin kenpo stuff. But the Parker/Tracy staff forms, I am not a fan of them.
     
  11. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple Master of Arts

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    I've no idea if it's just a kenpo thing, but I'm not a fan of most of the weapons forms that I've seen/practiced. I get the idea that they can help you learn principles, but I don't understand the relation. Plus, I honestly just don't enjoy them. I like open-handed forms as I can practice them at home/work and mess around with them to practice principles. Can't really do that with most weapons.
     
  12. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Senior Master

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    The staff is an awesome weapon. It's one of those weapons where you can probably just give to your enemy to make them fight worse. If you know how to use one then you can pretty much go to town on someone and beat them like a rug. If you don't know how to use a staff then you are probably better off without it than with it as it will be cumbersome to use.
    These guys don't know how to use one. Don't be like these guys


    Be like these guys


    And definitely don't buy a staff like this guy and don't learn from him at all when it comes to staff lol.


    It's like a spear without the pointy end. Just from your personality you aren't going to find any happiness in a flashy staff made out of light weight material or those flexible staffs like what you see Jake Mace use. Get yourself a natural wax wood staff (not a thin one).
     
  13. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Senior Master

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  14. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Grandmaster

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    I completely understand where you are coming from. The kenpo staff that I learned, I feel was poorly designed and is a waste of time. The way it was taught to me did not make the deeper connections that it really needs, and what I have seen of other kenpo lineages, seems to be the same. I won't claim it's like that for every school, but that has been consistent with what I have seen.

    When I got into the Chinese methods, they are taught differently and the forms are designed better and it makes more sense. Initially, I was also reluctant to learn weapons, as I felt they would be less convenient to practice. While there is truth in that, I found the greater benefits outweighed the inconvenience and I really began to appreciate what it gives to the training experience.

    If you find yourself in the San Francisco area let me know. Maybe we can find some time to get together and share notes. I couldn't teach you our forms, but at least could show you how it all integrates in my system. That could be valuable perspective.
     
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  15. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    This is a reasonably-close interpretation of a basic bo kata, Tokumine no Kun, which I practice. I feel it is a good, realistic, use of the weapon. You see in the kata the basic moves. Jabbing (pool cue and thrusts), striking (hands and feet of opponent), blocking in a variety of ways, and so on. The stances and transitions are absolutely applicable to empty-hand practice, as is the manner in which power is generated.

    I was not a huge fan of weapons forms when I reached the level in my training where they were introduced. I thought that they were archaic and didn't translate well into modern times. Although yes, I could theoretically pick up a stick and use it in somewhat the same manner as a bo, I thought the chances of that happening were rather remote.

    I still think that the weapons forms I train in have limited application as weapons forms, that is, directly. However, now that I have spent some time getting familiar with the weapons, learning how to handle them, move them correctly, and perhaps more importantly, to avoid having them taken from me, and the time spent practicing (as I said) the stances and transitions, I feel that I have gained a lot by working with the weapons. It's not my most favorite thing to do, but it is absolutely worthwhile to me.

    I am not a fan of weapons tricking. I'm sorry, it is just baton-twirling to me and it is meaningless. It is not only useless for self-defense (go ahead, throw your bo in the air and catch it behind your back while fighting someone, I dare you), but it avoids teaching anything applicable to empty-hand training with the possible exception of good hand-eye coordination. I'm just not interested in it. I try not to make fun of the folks doing it, but to me, yeah, it's baton-twirling.
     
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  16. drop bear

    drop bear Grandmaster

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    Oh. you dont like the grind huh?

     
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  17. MI_martialist

    MI_martialist Green Belt

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    Think of your bo training, or any weapon training, as strategy and not simply techniques.
     
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  18. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Senior Master

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    Weapon tricking is a Sin. Unless you are going hollywood.
     
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  19. gpseymour

    gpseymour Senior Master

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    I look at it as something I can probably find in most environments. Of the traditional weapons in JMA, it's among the most similar to what I can pick up in most places. That potential is what keeps me interested in staff and stick.
     
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  20. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng Sr. Grandmaster

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    I have always like the staff. Learned a Shaoliin Chanquan staff form, trained Xingyi Staff and Yang staff too, heck I even learned triple section staff. But I must warn you, be careful, the staff can be unforgiving, it broke my ankle in Changquan... come to think of it I broke my ankle twice in Changquan....so maybe it was not so much the staff as it was Changquan
     
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