Spiritual Explorers in the Art of Peace

[Xue Sheng]

“In Aikido we never attack. An attack is proof that one is out of control. Never run away from any kind of challenge, but do not try to suppress or control an opponent unnaturally. Let attackers come any way they like and then blend with them. Never chase after opponents. Redirect each attack and get firmly behind it.”
― Morihei Ueshiba

“In the art of peace, a single cut of the sword summons up the wondrous powers of the universe. That one sword links the past, present, and future; it absorbs the universe. Time and space disappear. All of creation, from the distant past to the present moment, lives in the sword. All human existence flourishes right here in the sword you hold in your hands. You are now prepared for anything that may arise.”
― Morihei Ueshiba, The Art of Peace

 

[JowGaWolf]

So in your mind killing a mouse is the same thing as killing your wife?

I can't help but to think of the black and white gangster movies "you dirty rat"

 

[O'Malley]

“In Aikido we never attack. An attack is proof that one is out of control. Never run away from any kind of challenge, but do not try to suppress or control an opponent unnaturally. Let attackers come any way they like and then blend with them. Never chase after opponents. Redirect each attack and get firmly behind it.”
― Morihei Ueshiba

See why I talk about misquotes? Ueshiba took the initiative (by smashing people in the face). The "Art of Peace" is just a collection of out of context quotes translated to fit a particular narrative that altered a lot of facts. Perhaps an inspiring read but an easy road to misunderstandings about Morihei Ueshiba.

 

[Taiji Rebel]

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See why I talk about misquotes? Ueshiba took the initiative (by smashing people in the face). The "Art of Peace" is just a collection of out of context quotes translated to fit a particular narrative that altered a lot of facts. Perhaps an inspiring read but an easy road to misunderstandings about Morihei Ueshiba.

No I do not see why they are misquotes - it is your perspective on aikido that is taking things out of context O'Malley. These photographs are evidence that Morihei Ueshiba's aikido used atemi, they have no connection or relevance to his quotes.

 

[Xue Sheng]

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See why I talk about misquotes? Ueshiba took the initiative (by smashing people in the face). The "Art of Peace" is just a collection of out of context quotes translated to fit a particular narrative that altered a lot of facts. Perhaps an inspiring read but an easy road to misunderstandings about Morihei Ueshiba.

I feel the Art of Peace is a good book, it is just many misinterpret what is being said, Which is why I posted 2 quotes from Ueshiba, one from the Art of Peace. I tended to read it and what I got was Aikido is about peace, but it is not about being a victim. It is not about attack, but it is about defense, and if at all possible cause a little damage to the opponent as possible,. But with that said, it is not always possible.

Because If you are able do something basic as irimi-nage on another person, who is not trained how to fall, or at full speed, you will likely hurt them.

 

[O'Malley]

No I do not see why they are misquotes - it is your perspective on aikido that is taking things out of context O'Malley. These photographs are evidence that Morihei Ueshiba's aikido used atemi, they have no connection or relevance to his quotes.

The first sequence of pictures shows Ueshiba striking uke 's face with his right hand, then applying ikkyo to the parrying arm. This is in line with the technical instructions in "Aikido Maki-no-ichi" and "Budo", two technical manuals drafted with Ueshiba's approval. It is still practiced that way in lineages such as Yoshinkan and Iwama. It is also in direct opposition with the quote "in aikido we never attack".

See the following interview and article:

Budoka no Kotae - Talking to Morihiro Saito Sensei, Part 2 - Aikido Sangenkai Blog

Part 2 of the English translation of an interview with Morihiro Saito, a direct student of Aikido Founder Morihei Ueshiba and guardian of the Aiki Shrine.

www.aikidosangenkai.org

The Origins of Modern Aikido: The Shomenuchi Dilemma by Stanley Pranin – Aikido Journal

aikidojournal.com

And, once again, why all the sass?

 

[JowGaWolf]

I feel the Art of Peace is a good book, it is just many misinterpret what is being said, Which is why I posted 2 quotes from Ueshiba, one from the Art of Peace. I tended to read it and what I got was Aikido is about peace, but it is not about being a victim. It is not about attack, but it is about defense, and if at all possible cause a little damage to the opponent as possible,. But with that said, it is not always possible.

Because If you are able do something basic as irimi-nage on another person, who is not trained how to fall, or at full speed, you will likely hurt them.

One of the things I heard in the videos is that sstudentslearn how to fall so they don't get hurt. My assumption that if a person doesn't know how to fall then they are going to get hurt. I don't see it any other way. I think gentleness is only for students and was not intended for the person that is trying to do you bodily harm. All of the comments about gentleness seems to specifically directed at how students train with each other. I have not hear anyone from Aikido to say be gentle to someone who is attacking you with the intent to do harm.

 

[O'Malley]

I feel the Art of Peace is a good book, it is just many misinterpret what is being said, Which is why I posted 2 quotes from Ueshiba, one from the Art of Peace. I tended to read it and what I got was Aikido is about peace, but it is not about being a victim. It is not about attack, but it is about defense, and if at all possible cause a little damage to the opponent as possible,. But with that said, it is not always possible.

Because If you are able do something basic as irimi-nage on another person, who is not trained how to fall, or at full speed, you will likely hurt them.

As I wrote at the previous page, Ueshiba's idea of "peace" is not what is understood as "peace" by the common reader and is not something most people would be comfortable with (I, for one, wouldn't). The quotes in TAOP are out of context, the original Japanese is not in the book and Stevens' translation is heavily influenced by his personal convictions (granted, it was probablyareally tough job). This makes the book unreliable as a source on Morihei Ueshiba's technique and philosophy. His ideas about the place of peace in budo are in reality not that different from what already existed in koryu arts, judo, shotokan karate and daito-ryu. The whole "protecting the attacker" thing was popularized by the influence of Kisshomaru and Tohei at Hombu and Adele Westbrook and Oscar Ratti's book "Aikido and the dynamic sphere". They were both fresh 1st degree black belts at the time and the book contains a number of inaccuracies.

One of the things I heard in the videos is that sstudentslearn how to fall so they don't get hurt. My assumption that if a person doesn't know how to fall then they are going to get hurt. I don't see it any other way. I think gentleness is only for students and was not intended for the person that is trying to do you bodily harm. All of the comments about gentleness seems to specifically directed at how students train with each other. I have not hear anyone from Aikido to say be gentle to someone who is attacking you with the intent to do harm.

Well, most techniques are throws, which are arguably harder on the body than, say, strikes or takedowns.

 

[JowGaWolf]

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See why I talk about misquotes? Ueshiba took the initiative (by smashing people in the face). The "Art of Peace" is just a collection of out of context quotes translated to fit a particular narrative that altered a lot of facts. Perhaps an inspiring read but an easy road to misunderstandings about Morihei Ueshiba.

Am I looking at a similar application here?

 

[JowGaWolf]

Am I looking at a similar application here?

By the way. This is how I was taught to get wrist locks in kung fu (strikes are used to set up wrist control). The strikes didn't have to be super hard. They just have to be at an intensity that will cause your opponent to react and forget about his wrist. I know with Rokkas, he clearly makes it known that he's going to go for the wrist. Because of that his opponent is able to defend the wrist.

 

[O'Malley]

Am I looking at a similar application here?

Kind of. The point IMO is to be aggressive and occupy the centerline. Ideally, one should strike before even getting grabbed. If there happens to be an opportunity for a wrist lock then go for it. Interestingly, while daito ryu guys seem to do next to no striking training, the teacher's strikes in the video seem to have some weight behind them.

 

[JowGaWolf]

While daito ryu guys seem to do next to no striking training, the teacher's strikes in the video seem to have some weight behind them.

When I see things like this, I can't help but remember what Gerry stated earlier about Aikido "that it's more of a "finishing system" and that the foundations of striking are learned elsewhere. The teacher is definitely strikingly informed.

I had a good laugh at that punch. He nailed it. The student enjoyed it too. That's what learning is all about. I miss that type of interaction with a teacher.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

When your opponent has grips on you, if you try to punch him, he can shake (a quick pull and push) you and disable your punch. When you are thinking about punch him, your opponent already thinks about taking you down. He is 1 step ahead of you.

It seems to me that Chinese wrestling may suit better for the "Art of Peace". You don't need to punch at your opponent to break an upper collar grip.

肘(Zhou) - Elbow pressing:



If your opponent refuses to release his grip, just 1 more circle will do the job.



崩(Beng) - Cracking:

 

[JowGaWolf]

It seems to me that Chinese wrestling may suit better for the "Art of Peace". You don't need to punch at your opponent to break an upper collar grip

ha ha ha. Says the guy who shows the picture of a guy with his head stuck in the ground and feet sticking out lol.

肘(Zhou) - Elbow pressing:

I'm having trouble with seeing what is going on in this one. Which direction is the elbow going? Are you driving your elbow down?

 

[JowGaWolf]

崩(Beng) - Cracking:

Are you using your arm to straighten out the elbow?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I'm having trouble with seeing what is going on in this one. Which direction is the elbow going? Are you driving your elbow down?

Put your elbow on the other side of your opponent's grip and drop.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Are you using your arm to straighten out the elbow?

You straight up your opponent's arm and put pressure on his elbow joint.

Here is another example of "cracking".



Whatever that you do, it depends on your opponent's intention. If your opponent intends to

- straight his arm, you help his arm to be straight even more by using "cracking" on his elbow joint.
- bend his arm, you help his arm to bend even more by pining his arm on your chest.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Just trying to show that to punch on your opponent to break a grip is not necessary.

If you pin your opponent's arm on your chest, you have just obtained a free contact point. It will be to your advantage.

Here is an example that your opponent's collar grip can be your free contact point.

 

[JowGaWolf]

You straight up your opponent's arm and put pressure on his elbow joint.

Here is another example of "cracking".



Whatever that you do, it depends on your opponent's intention. If your opponent intends to

- straight his arm, you help his arm to be straight even more by using "cracking" on his elbow joint.
- bend his arm, you help his arm to bend even more by pining his arm on your chest.

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Thank you. I appreciate it.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Are you using your arm to straighten out the elbow?

Here is an example than when your opponent has 1 arm that wrap around your waist, if you don't use "cracking" to break his grip, you may have trouble.

The waist wrap control is much more powerful than the upper collar control.