Spin Techniques

Discussion in 'General Self Defense' started by Zoran, Mar 29, 2004.

  1. Zoran

    Zoran Black Belt

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    So what's your opinion? Are spin techniques, and I don't mean the jump spinning hook kick, are they of any use in self defense?

    If not, why do you think so?

    If yes, when would it be usefull?

    I'd love to here the pros and cons.
     
  2. 8253

    8253 Guest

    I believe that spin techniques can be usefull, such as a spinning backfist if someone hits you from behind. but as far as trying to spin around in a face to face fight i dont believe that i would try it then. Spinning techniques can be very powerful but turning you back on an opponent could turn out disastrous even if just for a second. It would just be too easy to step in on someone trying to turn for a spinning technique making you to close to be able to connect properly. It can also be a balance problem if someone were to step towards you while you are turning.
     
  3. loki09789

    loki09789 Senior Master

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    In general, I agree with the 6 o'clock counter attack application of spin tech's as the most reasonable:

    Trained repitition/reproduction of spin tech's will mean you will do it in the 'street' out of habit - possibly ignoring/disregarding terrain or environmental considerations (Slippery ground, ice, gravel....)

    the flip is that if you are concentrating on NOT doing it because you know it is too risky for the environment, you could be distracted/inhibit your training, thus interrupting your mental/physical flow.

    Spin tech's are fantastic for the development of core/trunk strength and coordination/balance.... so I see benefits to it in training, but only if it is contextually/tactically aligned (fits in the right place) for your stylist/'fight' goals.
     
  4. MJS

    MJS Administrator Staff Member

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    I've done them many times, both in training and in sparring. I do feel however, that they need to be set up before they are executed. Otherwise, there is a very good chance that they can be seen coming, and thereby jammed.


    Mike
     
  5. Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

    Kembudo-Kai Kempoka Senior Master

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    I've used them in sparring and fights, but still prefer to just cover and face the guy. In sparring, I'll use them in "unexpected" ways...start a spinning back kick, but leave the leg low to bring up as a roundhouse from the opposite side than typically expected from a spinning attack. In a fight? I'd rather sit on the chest and pound sand.
     
  6. rschoon

    rschoon Guest

    I used to do some spinning techs in sparring but as I grow older, I find that I am not nearly as fast as I was in the past therefore the spins pretty much stay i my toolbox. (even though I do still try on occasion to remind myself of my newly acquired shortcomings.)

    Rick :uhyeah:
     
  7. RHD

    RHD Guest

    Turning your back in a self defense situation (or any martial situation) is never a good idea.
    Mike
     
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  8. j.c. murphy

    j.c. murphy Guest

    My knee-jerk response is the same as RHD's; never turn your back. However, and there is always a however in life, if you are going against an uncooperative person; you may have a technique jammed or otherwise be forced into a situation might not only be valid, but may be the best choice.

    The chance of this should be low and turning should not be a first option, so I would limit it's practice to a very small percentage of my training time. (Less than 5% should be allocated to this type of technique)
     
  9. Zoran

    Zoran Black Belt

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    As MA-ists, we train for the "howevers" of life.

    I do agree that purposely turning your back on an attacker is not advisable. But as j.c. murphy states, there are time when you may be forced to do this.

    Being jammed up where a spin can get you out.
    Being attacked from behind.
    Also against multiple attackers when you are flanked. A spin followed by proper footwork can get you out of the "hot" zone.

    What would not be advisable is to try to catch someone with a spin in a self defense situation just for the sake of doing it, leaves you open to Murphies Law to kick in. Sparring is different as there are rules there and it should be used as a training tool for self defense. So trying out a spin could be okay there, just to get some practice in.
     
  10. KanoLives

    KanoLives Guest

    I prefer straight 1-2's over a spinning attack. But as most have already said they have there pros and cons. If I do a spin attack I usually set it up with a few quick jabs followed by a spinning back fist. No foot movement though only pivioting to allow the torso and hips to open for a little more power.

    BTW are we only talking about hand strikes or spin kicks as well?
     
  11. Zoran

    Zoran Black Belt

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    Since we are at the self defense section of the forum, I would say mostly hand strikes or elbows. Sparring and self defense are two different worlds.
     
  12. Makalakumu

    Makalakumu Gonzo Karate Apocalypse

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    Spinning techniques are like any techniques. There are no magic wands in fighting. I use spinning techniques to get myself out of bad situations. When someone flanks you, one on one or as a multiple person situation, a 180 spin technique with either hand or foot might just correct the situation. In my opinion, this is the niche for spin techniques, not one on one face to face sparring situations. It drives me crazy when I see people lead with spinning techniques. They sure look cool, but any lead punch or kick will beat it to the punch. I love it when you can use them correctly though. Your opponent gets to a blind side and thinks they have you and wham and your on to the next guy...
     
  13. MichiganTKD

    MichiganTKD Master Black Belt

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    Every technique, whether spinning, jumping, flying, or whatever, has its place in self defense. There are some techniques that are more practical than others, a greater likelihood that they would be useful. But, yes, even spinning and jumping kicks can be used in the right situation.
    I tend to agree. In a situation with more than one opponent, especially where you need to keep moving and motion is a factor, I could definitely see spinning techniques as being useful. But yes, not leading with one. Only as a defensive move.
     
  14. Rick Wade

    Rick Wade Master Black Belt

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    In a sparring situation if you are fast enough OK

    In a true self-defense situation you would generally not want to turn your back on your opponent even for a second. Hopefully you have assessed the situation for other adversaries

    Thanks
     
  15. 2fisted

    2fisted Guest

    I gotta say no. They take too much time and your back gets turned. Bad idea.
     
  16. Brother John

    Brother John Senior Master

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    "Come on Baaaaby.....Lets do tha twist....."

    PROS:
    1. Unexpected. Much as leaping to the floor and dragging yer keester across the floor like a dog with worms would be unexpected.
    2. Spinning in a circle (when done right) builds momentum. BUT if you follow this line of reasoning to it's logical conclusion.... keep spinning....think of all that momentum. :uhyeah:
    3. Spinning is Great....for turning to run. "Choke'm in heel dust!"

    Cons:
    1. Telegraphing. ("I'm going to try to strike you now! If you'd like to time it, it will most likely be delivered when my side turns all the way around and is near you again...until then...have fun, cuz I won't be able to see you for a moment.")
    2. BACK TO YOUR OPPONENT. (this is also a PRO, just for your opponent...not you)
    3. There's better ways to generate momentum/force, ways that don't present your kidneys and base of your skull to the person you are fighting and don't force.
    4. It forces you to raise (generally) your center of gravity under a momentarily narrower base. (it's easier to 'spin' on a small circle rather than a large)

    As you may guess....I suggest throwing the tactic of "Spinning" out the window.
    Your Brother
    John
     
  17. MichiganTKD

    MichiganTKD Master Black Belt

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    Keep in mind: ANY technique can work if you practice it every day, study it, and learn its applications. One thing I've noticed: the people who claim it would never work are the ones who don't really practice it (i.e. the Kenpo people, BJJ practitioners, and grapplers). Don't dismiss a technique because you don't practice it.
     
  18. MJS

    MJS Administrator Staff Member

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    I wont speak for all Kenpo people, but I practice certain spinning kicks. I've actually had success with them in the sparring ring, but I really dont think I'd do one on the street. Again, everybody is different. The BJJ guys will most likely focus on a front kick and round house kicks, especially to the legs.

    As I've said before, everything has its place and time. I just dont think that in a life and death fight that thats the place for a jump spinning back kick, while I might be wearing a suit, tie shoes. Now, if I had a gi that I could change into...well that might be a different story!! :boing2:

    Mike
     
  19. MichiganTKD

    MichiganTKD Master Black Belt

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    That's why when I go get sized for a suit, I make sure it's loose in the legs. Nothing worse than pants that bind me up down there! I heard that's one of the definitions of a hard core martial artist-buying clothes based on how well you can kick in them.
     
  20. MJS

    MJS Administrator Staff Member

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    Well, everybody has their choice of what they like to do for kicks. Personally, I find it much more effective to do a kick to the groin or a Thai kick to the leg instead of trying to do a fancy move. Short, simple and to the point!!!

    And as for hardcore....I've been training for 17yrs and I'm still going. I'd say thats pretty hard core!!!

    Mike123
     

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