"STREET" modifications of classics

[loki09789]

Just wondering if we could edumacate each other on some 'dirty bag of tricks' types of modifications to basic/traditional/dojo types of techniques for reality applications that we have found to make them more 'street' without sacrificing functionallity.

Example:

My "Hymlich take down" is a modified Judo/JiuJiutsu turning throw (please let me know the traditional name if you know it, I have forgotten since Judo isn't my main system) with a 'street' twist. I still enter the same way, slip around the guy so that I am standing behind him facing the same direction (A to B, as they say in the "CORPS") and still raise the ball of my foot up for him to trip over as he is turned to either the left or the right

BUT

I don't wrap my arms around his waist and try and lift him with my legs and hips with his brain switched on and ready to go because, I hit/grab lower, at the groin, hopefully causing "shock and ouch" - thus reducing his chances of being able to mentally respond clearly. Also - being shorter - it is easier for me to target and it is further down for him to have to reach if he wants to try and break my grip. Also, the most natural response to a hit or even threat to that region is to lean forward and cover, so the head butting/forward hip thrust break out is less likely on a physiological/psychological level. As well as the fact that attempting to break my grip will also mean he is essentially using my hands to yank and pull his ....well you know , in very uncomfortable and not to nice a way....

Any others?

 

[Black Bear]

Having not trained in a "do-oriented" methodology for a long time, I have perhaps lost perspective on what the distinction is between one and the other. But for instance on entries we'll always make a point to step on a foot, and when we "combat mount" a guy we make sure to smear their face with our forearms and oops catch a testicle with our knee on the way up.

 

[Gary Crawford]

I like both of those!The amount of pain caused by crushing the groin in any way warms my black heart!

 

[loki09789]

I like both of those!The amount of pain caused by crushing the groin in any way warms my black heart!

Within martial philosophy either of these would be considered 'economy of motion' from my thinking: get more bang for your buck. Minimal effort, maximum results.

Within 'combatives' tactical sciences either of these are practical considerations: Maintain control of the momentum and disfunction the attackers ability to continue mentally/physically.

I think the big distinction is that the first is focused in and the other is focused out.

 

[Gary Crawford]

I do have one technique that is street modified for those of you familiar with the figure four armbar/lock.Instead of taking the arm downward for pain compliance,take it horizontal turning 45 degrees,tearing muscles and possibly dislocate or possibly(with enough quick force) rip the arm off.

 

[Black Bear]

The funny thing with stepping on their foot and then elbowing or palm-striking the guy in the chin is you still always feel them trying to "step" back with the pinned foot. I do it too. That's reflex for you.

A lot of the streetified stuff that you can't really spar with very well is close-quarter, like elbow-and-face-rake-with-a-knee-spike-on-the-half-beat. One that always gives me a chuckle is smacking both ears, then thumbing both eyes and then ripping off both ears. Kind of jolt's the guy's head while you're at it. But it's really not a modification of a "classic" now is it?

Okay, I thought of one. Thai-kicking the side of the knee, which can be injurious and not nice to do in the ring, or even the lower part of the leg, which is safe but superfast because it's close to the ground. One competition fighter at our school does it very well. It always stuns a guy "what the--ouch!" and creates an "awareness gap" when he can do almost any attack he pleases. Funny stuff.

 

[Black Bear]

Ooh, ooh, we work our greco while wearing old hockey jerseys purchased from thrift stores. At three or four dollars, it's cheaper than a gi and easier to throw on in the middle of the class. Grabbing the jersey and pulling simulates common street conditions without tearing our "real" clothes, and makes for some easy takedowns. Hockey jerseys are very difficult to rip.

One guy from our studio was in a fight at his high school (with the obligatory audience in attendance) and had the guy's head down. Now as you know you can drive knees into the guy's face, or front-choke him, or any number of things. But in the spirit of minimizing violence, (this WAS just a school fight) he sought an alternative... he looked down and just SAW it...

Well, we call it the "atomic wedgie"...

The crowd laughed raucously and the just guy bolted off. Quickest end to a fight I know of, no bruises.

 

[Touch Of Death]

After the initial strike to the kneck with a referse sword hand in "Sleeper" there is a great oportunity to break a few ribs with a "bowing to Buddha" type anchoring elbow. Kinda ends the fight right there. :uhyeah:
Sean

 

[IMAA]

Well, some of the things that come to my mind, is typically the traditional blocking movements that are taught in most "Do" style systems.

Lets take the "high block" for instance, its a great forearm strike to the face or to the nose. Also it can be used as a strike to points on the face or neck ie, the ST5 point at the base of the jaw line, or the corated in the side of the neck.

A middle block, could be a fist strike to the side of the face or same areas as the high blocking motion.....also another application, is if someone grabs your wrist you execute the movement like a middle forearm block and you get a release or at least a set up for another strike.

The Chambering position on the waist has several principles, could be you grabbing their wrist and pulling them inward so you can pound on your opponent, it can be a release to a grab, or even an elbow strike to the rear.

but my favorite technique would be the EYE gouge for self defense.....ie, that is what I think the interpretation of the knife hand "blocks" are....just an unmodified eye strike.....There are many things I can think of out of Kata by analyzing bunkai to become a street effective techniques its just thinking outside of the box...

Thanks

 

[loki09789]

Well, some of the things that come to my mind, is typically the traditional blocking movements that are taught in most "Do" style systems.

Lets take the "high block" for instance, its a great forearm strike to the face or to the nose. Also it can be used as a strike to points on the face or neck ie, the ST5 point at the base of the jaw line, or the corated in the side of the neck.

A middle block, could be a fist strike to the side of the face or same areas as the high blocking motion.....also another application, is if someone grabs your wrist you execute the movement like a middle forearm block and you get a release or at least a set up for another strike.

The Chambering position on the waist has several principles, could be you grabbing their wrist and pulling them inward so you can pound on your opponent, it can be a release to a grab, or even an elbow strike to the rear.

but my favorite technique would be the EYE gouge for self defense.....ie, that is what I think the interpretation of the knife hand "blocks" are....just an unmodified eye strike.....There are many things I can think of out of Kata by analyzing bunkai to become a street effective techniques its just thinking outside of the box...

Thanks

Kudos to an innovator and not a replicator.

 

[Nightingale]

personally, I'd probably go for eyes or throat over an initial groin shot, just because when a guy's attacking a girl, he's expecting the groin shot.

 

[loki09789]

Another one I thought of was using the thrusting or pulling motion of a linear hand strike (punch/heel hand...) to scrap or 'shave' the forearm along soft tissue targets like the side of the neck instead of just using the motion with the goal of 'striking' with the end of the thrust. I know that some Mantis and other arts train this standard, but since it isn't standard to me, so when I was playing around with it and saw it in other systems as regular practice it just confirmed that it could be effective. - along with the fact that it hurts like hell.

 

[tumpaiguy]

Kajukenbo as an art is based on classics modified for the street. Instead of your run of mill block the punch then strike. I might redirect the punch with a brush block while eye poking you and kicking you in the groin at the same time. Or I might do a left hand outward tendon block overhooking the right arm(punching arm) moving in tight with a right hand throat strike/grab, then while lowering your center, bringing the attacker down with you, step back with your left foot and twist him down to the ground to the left still holding throat. BTW, don't grab his neck, grab his adams apple. Then with the overhooked arm you should be in a good arm break position also. Play with it!

 

[loki09789]

Kajukenbo as an art is based on classics modified for the street. Instead of your run of mill block the punch then strike. I might redirect the punch with a brush block while eye poking you and kicking you in the groin at the same time. Or I might do a left hand outward tendon block overhooking the right arm(punching arm) moving in tight with a right hand throat strike/grab, then while lowering your center, bringing the attacker down with you, step back with your left foot and twist him down to the ground to the left still holding throat. BTW, don't grab his neck, grab his adams apple. Then with the overhooked arm you should be in a good arm break position also. Play with it!

Kajukenbo is a close cousin to my CHA-3 exposure and I love the 'dirty' stuff in it. The idea of what I use to call "in between" striking suddenly went from being bad technique and sloppy oops contacts to actual working, acknowledged innovations/adaptations. FMA is also full of adaptiveness over systematicness.

 

[tumpaiguy]

Kajukenbo is a close cousin to my CHA-3 exposure and I love the 'dirty' stuff in it. The idea of what I use to call "in between" striking suddenly went from being bad technique and sloppy oops contacts to actual working, acknowledged innovations/adaptations. FMA is also full of adaptiveness over systematicness.

Yes, I believe CHA-3 was developed by Sijo Emperado's(Kajukenbo Founder) first BB Tiwanak I think is his name.

 

[loki09789]

Yes, I believe CHA-3 was developed by Sijo Emperado's(Kajukenbo Founder) first BB Tiwanak I think is his name.

My association to CHA-3 is through Tom Bolden from American Modern Arnis Associates. He spend time/trained in Hawaii as a Marine and went back later to continue his training. Florentino Panci Panci was his CHA-3/Escrima Instructor there.

 

[tumpaiguy]

Marino Tiwanak was the first BB promoted by Adriano Emperado. But in Kenpo, this was before Kajukenbo was actually an art. So CHA-3 must have developed pre 1950. His son Mike Tiwanak heads CHA-3 now.

 

[Bammx2]

I like this post....
I am a freestyle instructor and I have have BB's in 2 traditional arts,but I do prefer the free-thinking methods of mixed martial arts and modern realistic training.
I have also had more than my share of confrontations in my time(one of those "wrong place,wrong time people")
One "oldie,but goodie" I have used several times is the good ole fashioned reverse punch from my shotokan and shorin-ryu days.
works everytime!
It also had to do with timming a lot of the times and the only modification was to slightly "over exagerate" the stepping movement of the punch to get more hip twist behind it.
Example: I worked as "doorman" in the UK and had to use it one night while at work.When I cocked it,my punching elbow,shoulder and hips were in.......mississipi

before I let that thing rip.
Job done!
It's the only "traditional" technique, other than the front kick, I use.
But as said before...timming was everything.

 

[bluenosekenpo]

this is a little off topic, but it is a defensive application i've wondered about. this isn't a technique and not really sure if it's practical as a defensive strike, but here it goes(never used it on someone before),

-weak or strong foot forward (i prefer weak, better torque)
-bad guy standing in front of you
-open hand slap, hand slightly cupped and held ridged, starts from hip or guard
-strike is aimed at the jaw hinge(the cupping effect focuses pressure increasing the concussive effect), hips are rotated quickly
-as you hit, you continue the motion across the face and eyes,dragging fingers through the facial topology
-as you leave the face your hand moves 6-12"beyond, then rapidly snapped into a backfist at his temple or jaw(chances are he won't be there if you connect with the first strike),
-then follow up with whatever you like

this is a very fast strike and the power is impressive, i never would have thought a slap could be that powerful. i've had BOB (body opp. bag) really dancing when i've practiced this(sounds like a machine gun when you get it going). i can only imagine what it would do in real life, or i might be delusional and the bad guy would laugh at me and kick my ***. :uhyeah:

 

[loki09789]

this is a little off topic, but it is a defensive application i've wondered about. this isn't a technique and not really sure if it's practical as a defensive strike, but here it goes(never used it on someone before),

-weak or strong foot forward (i prefer weak, better torque)
-bad guy standing in front of you
-open hand slap, hand slightly cupped and held ridged, starts from hip or guard
-strike is aimed at the jaw hinge(the cupping effect focuses pressure increasing the concussive effect), hips are rotated quickly
-as you hit, you continue the motion across the face and eyes,dragging fingers through the facial topology
-as you leave the face your hand moves 6-12"beyond, then rapidly snapped into a backfist at his temple or jaw(chances are he won't be there if you connect with the first strike),
-then follow up with whatever you like

this is a very fast strike and the power is impressive, i never would have thought a slap could be that powerful. i've had BOB (body opp. bag) really dancing when i've practiced this(sounds like a machine gun when you get it going). i can only imagine what it would do in real life, or i might be delusional and the bad guy would laugh at me and kick my ***. :uhyeah:

I'd say shift the targetting to the 'sunglasses' rim (ear, eye/nose) level instead of the jaw. Keep the cupping hand tool and strike the ear as the primary target. Really messes with the equilibriu. If you hit pay dirt and get it, great. If you miss because he slips in it turns into a forearm strike to the side of the head/neck, great. If he fades back and you get a piece of the temple/ocular ridge/eyeball/nose, great. If you miss completely because he fades back/out too fast, great because you have the backfist motion follow up.... generally speaking it's a great idea. Of course sprinkle a little "let's get out of here" and "watch out for some friends" and your really doing great