I challange anyone to produce one police report of people spitting on Us Soldiers after comming home from vietnam at the airport.
Sean
Sean
Speaking of Urban Legends
- Thread starter Touch Of Death
- Start date
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot???
Where did this come rom? Is this something that was likely to make an official police report?
Lamont
Where did this come rom? Is this something that was likely to make an official police report?
Lamont
Sean what is up are you angry about something, because your statement dictates it. I do not know if there are police reports but I do know alot of people hated the veterans from the VietNam war. My cousin was in during the conflict and I can remembe rpeople calling him a babay killer and such, it drove him mad to the point of him killing himself, he just could not understood why he was a victom when he had no choice but to do has his country ask of him.
Cruentus
Grandmaster
Well, what is a "horror story" is that a lot of "liberal" (for lack of a better term) members of media and blogs like Slate and others are on this kick now that all the spitting stories were BS. There are many accounts of vets being treated like crap by protesters upon return from combat. Whether it was being "spit on" or being called names or given dirty looks, or what have you, does it really matter? Isn't it the point that soldiers were sent over to do a job, and many war protestors misplaced their anger by directing it towards the troops rather then the powers that be?
http://www.enterprisenews.com/articles/2006/05/01/news/news/news06.txt
It is good that we remember those times so that they aren't repeated (and it is nice to see the change with this current conflict in Iraq, btw). I think that arguing over the spitting stories and if they are true or not is splitting hairs. Hell, here is an account of soldiers being spat on IN RECENT TIMES OVER IRAQ, and being arrested for it. Why is it so far fetched to say that it would have happened during Vietnam, when public opinion of soldiers was at an all time low in this country?
http://www.americans-working-together.com/jack_cunningham/id89.html
http://www.enterprisenews.com/articles/2006/05/01/news/news/news06.txt
It is good that we remember those times so that they aren't repeated (and it is nice to see the change with this current conflict in Iraq, btw). I think that arguing over the spitting stories and if they are true or not is splitting hairs. Hell, here is an account of soldiers being spat on IN RECENT TIMES OVER IRAQ, and being arrested for it. Why is it so far fetched to say that it would have happened during Vietnam, when public opinion of soldiers was at an all time low in this country?
http://www.americans-working-together.com/jack_cunningham/id89.html
The countless stories of such things fail to prove a thing, I guess, much as the thousands of stories from holocaust survivors. To my admittedly limited knowledge, not a single "victim" among them reported anything to the police. I guess that one would refuse to believe the soldiers who liberated the camps in which those atrocities took place, too. Apparently we cant believe family members who saw it happen, either. Must not have happened. Nope. No proof. All lies.
Fortunately for American history, most Native Americans didn't report a single bit of mistreatment to the local authorities during and following the westward expansion.
I am so glad that of the rapes that are reported each year, many are false because there exists no tangible proof. Since they arent reported, no other rapes occur. Isnt that how this little game works if it wasnt reported, it didnt happen, right?
Im certain that the constable of puritan Salem would have received at least one or two reports of false imprisonment unless each and every person tried was in fact a witch.
I invite all who actually believe such dismissals of history and personal experiences to pucker up and collectively kiss my lily-white ***.
[Edit as required]
Cruentus
Grandmaster
Again, the trend has been propigated by certain members of the media, like Slate: http://www.slate.com/id/2158608?nav=tap3
It was first "debunked" from a 1998 book by Jerry Lembcke.
This is of course debunked because Mr. Lembcke wasn't able to find a police report regarding such an incident. Never mind the many eyewitness accounts and personal stories, and never mind the fact that most of those records would not be felony charges if charges were pressed and reports were made, and therefore would have been purged long ago.
The fact is, none of these things are black and white. In other words, you get many kinds of people within target groups. Not every protestor is of the jackassed, spitting on soldier ilk. But, some are. And, as reports and accounts go, some at least were very anti-soldier during the Vietnam war era, whether they spit on anyone or not.
So, what is the big deal?
Well, I think the real question is, why is it that some members of the more "liberal" media would take the time to "debunk" such myths? Why would books and articles be written on the subject? Why spend the time and the money?
Well, I think the real answer is embarrassment. People of the "war-protestor" ilk are embarrassed of the behavior of those whom shared similar views during the Vietnam era. In our 20/20 hindsight where every logical person can see that degrading soldiers who are only doing a job as ordered by our world leaders is immoral, the idea of blaming troops for a conflict is mortifying. So, instead of manning up and admitting that doing such a thing was wrong, some members of the "war protestor" ilk would rather deny that it ever happened.
I think that it is important to remember why some folks would focus on trying to "debunk" this aspect of history, rather then spend their journalism on other subjects. That in itself speaks volumes. Because you know what... they should be embarrassed, ashamed, and humiliated...
It was first "debunked" from a 1998 book by Jerry Lembcke.
This is of course debunked because Mr. Lembcke wasn't able to find a police report regarding such an incident. Never mind the many eyewitness accounts and personal stories, and never mind the fact that most of those records would not be felony charges if charges were pressed and reports were made, and therefore would have been purged long ago.
The fact is, none of these things are black and white. In other words, you get many kinds of people within target groups. Not every protestor is of the jackassed, spitting on soldier ilk. But, some are. And, as reports and accounts go, some at least were very anti-soldier during the Vietnam war era, whether they spit on anyone or not.
So, what is the big deal?
Well, I think the real question is, why is it that some members of the more "liberal" media would take the time to "debunk" such myths? Why would books and articles be written on the subject? Why spend the time and the money?
Well, I think the real answer is embarrassment. People of the "war-protestor" ilk are embarrassed of the behavior of those whom shared similar views during the Vietnam era. In our 20/20 hindsight where every logical person can see that degrading soldiers who are only doing a job as ordered by our world leaders is immoral, the idea of blaming troops for a conflict is mortifying. So, instead of manning up and admitting that doing such a thing was wrong, some members of the "war protestor" ilk would rather deny that it ever happened.
I think that it is important to remember why some folks would focus on trying to "debunk" this aspect of history, rather then spend their journalism on other subjects. That in itself speaks volumes. Because you know what... they should be embarrassed, ashamed, and humiliated...
There are also absolutely NO ACCOUNTS - Zip Zero Nada - of any witches being burned at the stake in Salem, Mass.
Trust me, I live here.
If there are any accounts of witches being burned at the stake, they are fake. It did NOT happen.
Forget what you know. No witches were burned at the stake in Salem.
Believe what you want but I'm telling you the rock solid truth.
Because...in 1692 Salem, witches weren't burned at the stake.
They were hanged.
EDIT:
I'm not sure how many "people spitting on Us Soldiers after comming home from vietnam at the airport"
Soldiers returning from Vietnam were typically flown back to a base, not to an airport.
Trust me, I live here.
If there are any accounts of witches being burned at the stake, they are fake. It did NOT happen.
Forget what you know. No witches were burned at the stake in Salem.
Believe what you want but I'm telling you the rock solid truth.
Because...in 1692 Salem, witches weren't burned at the stake.
They were hanged.
EDIT:
I'm not sure how many "people spitting on Us Soldiers after comming home from vietnam at the airport"
Soldiers returning from Vietnam were typically flown back to a base, not to an airport.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #8
That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heared. It becomes shown that a major piece of Americana is false, and you call for shame in doing so. Truth is always the first casualty I suppose... carry on.
Sean
Cruentus
Grandmaster
It's not found as false, for one.
There is ample amounts of accounts of war protestors misplacing anger on troops during Vietnam; accounts ranging from spitting to chanting to namecalling and what have you. Just because one can't find a police report of one incident, a record which would have been purged long ago, that doesn't mean it never happened. Furthermore, I did link to sites that cited articles and accounts of protestors vandalizing and attacking memorials to deceased vets during veitnam, as well as an account of a woman spitting on soldiers recently. But somehow, that is overlooked?
As I said, it is telling that one would waste time "debunking" such things. And like I said, you and everyone else who would waste such time should be embarrassed and ashamed... it's too bad it is so much so that you would attempt to change history.
Monadnock
2nd Black Belt
People shouldn't take anything on the Slate serious, much less anyone who blindly believes it all. (Baaaaaaaa)
They are denying any sort of wrong doing to the troops then, just like they are now. They are trying to skirt any responsibilities for their actions then, to try and help their anti-troop image now.
I aint buyin it. I wonder if anyone who reads Slate has ever mustered up the strength to go an talk to a Vietnam Vet. I guess attacking the troops in Iraq isn't enough. They had to go back to 'Nam as well.
Greeeeat thread choice though.......
They are denying any sort of wrong doing to the troops then, just like they are now. They are trying to skirt any responsibilities for their actions then, to try and help their anti-troop image now.
I aint buyin it. I wonder if anyone who reads Slate has ever mustered up the strength to go an talk to a Vietnam Vet. I guess attacking the troops in Iraq isn't enough. They had to go back to 'Nam as well.
Greeeeat thread choice though.......
OP
- Thread Starter
- #11
Thanks. There we go again. Being anti war gets equated with being anti troop. Anyone who tries to debunk the smear should feel some sort of shame. Its shameless really.
Sean
Cruentus
Grandmaster
Well, for those interested in reading some accounts of war vets being spit on and treated poorly during the Vietnam era, I suggest picking up a copy of this book: http://www.amazon.com/Homecoming-Bo...ef=sr_1_1/104-7751065-2206301?ie=UTF8&s=books
"Homecoming" by Bob Greene. Some of these soldiers who provided FIRST HAND ACCOUNTS for the book are still alive today. Maybe you should call them up and tell them that their experiences were just urban myths if you disagree?
:bs1:
"Homecoming" by Bob Greene. Some of these soldiers who provided FIRST HAND ACCOUNTS for the book are still alive today. Maybe you should call them up and tell them that their experiences were just urban myths if you disagree?
:bs1:
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Mustnt forget some witches were crushed and a couple was drowned too but none, I repeat absolutely none were burned at the stake As a matter of fact I dont even think they were given steak as a last meal before being hanged, crushed or drown that is
I use to live in that area too
jdinca
Master Black Belt
May I ask you what prompted you to post this in the first place? It seems out of character.
bushidomartialarts
Senior Master
ditto above, t.o.d. that seems real vitriolic for something 35 years in the past. did you lose an argument last night or something?
RE: witches...Fair enough. RE: Airports vs. bases, we have to remember that it was a pre-911 world and airfields weren't quite so secure as we have now. I do applogize for misconstruing airports and bases in my retoric. Gomen nasai.
Nan de mo nai desu.
It was Sean's initial premise that struck me as possibly being too...convenient with its wording. Thank you for your service Stone Dragone.
Monadnock
2nd Black Belt
The thread wasn't started about the "war". You oughta know - you posted it. It was purely about the anti-troops poeple who spit on them. And my post said nothing about the anti-war types either. So, by your own admission, you are putting the two together, not me.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #19
No, I just heared it on the radio. I don't have cable; so, I just thought I would throw this out there because it is relavent to the state of polarization we have today.
Sean
bushidomartialarts
Senior Master
do you feel there's polarization towards the troops today?
i think one place the military is going a much better job is with their support for veterans. my brother has done two tours over there now, and he goes through a pretty detailed and (from what i can tell) well designed re-entry program that's aimed at helping him psychologically and logistically.
i'm not arguing that our society is extremely polarized right now -- not even i'm that dumb. i just don't see many people taking it out on the troops.
and for the record, i don't think people filed police reports for getting spat on in the 70s. back then, our culture still believed in just smacking somebody who was that out of line.
i think one place the military is going a much better job is with their support for veterans. my brother has done two tours over there now, and he goes through a pretty detailed and (from what i can tell) well designed re-entry program that's aimed at helping him psychologically and logistically.
i'm not arguing that our society is extremely polarized right now -- not even i'm that dumb. i just don't see many people taking it out on the troops.
and for the record, i don't think people filed police reports for getting spat on in the 70s. back then, our culture still believed in just smacking somebody who was that out of line.
