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J-kid
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- Thread Starter
- #101
I have done some sparring with good strikers and they happen to know grappling aswell!
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yilisifu
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- Thread Starter
- #102
Actually, it's fairly rare to meet an "experienced striker" who does not also have some grappling skill...
The other thing is that you mentioned that you'd "sparred" with experienced strikers who also had grappling ability...didn't this thread start off in regards to "sparring" and how it is not the same as actual combat? Yes?
Here is a sure-fire way to find out if your personal grappling skills work as well as you think they do.
#1. Go to the sleaziest part of whatever city you live in and find a real lowlife bar.
#2. Walk up to the biggest, meanest-looking father-raper you can find and spit in his beer.
This is guaranteed to produce instant results and a wonderful learning experience.
The other thing is that you mentioned that you'd "sparred" with experienced strikers who also had grappling ability...didn't this thread start off in regards to "sparring" and how it is not the same as actual combat? Yes?
Here is a sure-fire way to find out if your personal grappling skills work as well as you think they do.
#1. Go to the sleaziest part of whatever city you live in and find a real lowlife bar.
#2. Walk up to the biggest, meanest-looking father-raper you can find and spit in his beer.
This is guaranteed to produce instant results and a wonderful learning experience.
KennethKu
2nd Black Belt
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You know a grappler is going to shoot for your mid lower trunk. If you stand there, you are going down. Of course you would want to jump out of his way or side step. And then give him a good whack on his back/side head. HEck, isn't this the basic in Aikido? (hmmm, minus the whack on the head).
Whether you know grappling or not, if you know how grappler comes at you, you should be able to figure out how to deal with it. Like Bart there said, try to compensate for your weakness.
Practice your footwork: Jump sideway and reverse punch. Take up Aikido
Whether you know grappling or not, if you know how grappler comes at you, you should be able to figure out how to deal with it. Like Bart there said, try to compensate for your weakness.
Practice your footwork: Jump sideway and reverse punch. Take up Aikido
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Astra
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- Thread Starter
- #104
Note: It isn't easy to actually catch a punch. Have you ever heard the phrase "The hand is quicker then the eye" ? Well, it's possible to punch faster then some people could even see it, much less act upon it.
Zujitsuka
Blue Belt
I'm with you Astra on it not being easy to catch a punch. A boxer's jab is a quick weapon. It can't be as easily redirected or caught like a lunge punch. Besides, if you don't spar, you'll never even come close to developing a good defense.
I hope everyone moves away from the 'grappling vs. striking' argument. Here is a quote I read in one of Dr. Yang Jwing-Ming (Shaolin Chin-Na book series) books that stuck in my mind:
"Chin-na (i.e. joint manipulations) can defeat wrestling, and striking defeats Chin-na, but wrestling can defeat striking."
These 3 types of martial techniques have a checks and balances system - no one is better or more powerful than the next.
The bottom line is that it is up to the individual and the TIMING of employing a martial tactic (whether it be a joint lock, and tackle, or a punch) rather than the actual tactic itself.
Peace & blessings,
I hope everyone moves away from the 'grappling vs. striking' argument. Here is a quote I read in one of Dr. Yang Jwing-Ming (Shaolin Chin-Na book series) books that stuck in my mind:
"Chin-na (i.e. joint manipulations) can defeat wrestling, and striking defeats Chin-na, but wrestling can defeat striking."
These 3 types of martial techniques have a checks and balances system - no one is better or more powerful than the next.
The bottom line is that it is up to the individual and the TIMING of employing a martial tactic (whether it be a joint lock, and tackle, or a punch) rather than the actual tactic itself.
Peace & blessings,
KennethKu
2nd Black Belt
- Joined
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No no no. You got it all wrong. You see, IronHand training can beat all three! . Heck, when you can break anything you punch or slap, you can simply parry your way to victory! (*sigh* forgive me for being juvenile here.)
. Heck, when you can break anything you punch or slap, you can simply parry your way to victory! (*sigh* forgive me for being juvenile here.)
Matt Stone
Master of Arts
Originally posted by KennethKu
You know a grappler is going to shoot for your mid lower trunk. If you stand there, you are going down. Of course you would want to jump out of his way or side step. And then give him a good whack on his back/side head. HEck, isn't this the basic in Aikido? (hmmm, minus the whack on the head).
Whether you know grappling or not, if you know how grappler comes at you, you should be able to figure out how to deal with it. Like Bart there said, try to compensate for your weakness.
Practice your footwork: Jump sideway and reverse punch. Take up Aikido
Like the UFC example I gave to Judo-kid upthread - when the grappler grabs you around your waist, keep your composure and elbow the dogsh*t out of the back of his head and neck. That should make him think twice about playing cuddly with you next time...
Gambarimasu.
:asian:
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J-kid
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- Thread Starter
- #109
There are other fights that happen still with no rules.
Anyways member back in those days That wrestler that royce got with a trangle choke in ufc 3 or 4. Well why didnt the strikers stop him/:ubercool:
Anyways member back in those days That wrestler that royce got with a trangle choke in ufc 3 or 4. Well why didnt the strikers stop him/:ubercool:
Matt Stone
Master of Arts
If it commercial and there is money to be made by prostituting the controlled violence between two people, you can bet your bippy there will be rules...
Specifically, rules to allow the event to occur (in accordance with local laws and ordinances, to include making the local boxing associations happy, since they usually control pugilistic entertainment in most states), rules to deal with limitations on bodily injury (is it sport entertainment or illegal assault?), rules to deal with potential accidents (liability waivers to cover the eventuality of one participant causing crippling or lethal injury to the others).
UFC, Pride, K-1, Pancrase... All chock full of rules and limitations on what techniques are allowed. The athletes that train for such competitive venues train for those venues, not for street combat, since street combat (having little in the way of referees or rules) is different from fighting in a ring for some kind of compensation...
Gambarimasu.
:asian:
Specifically, rules to allow the event to occur (in accordance with local laws and ordinances, to include making the local boxing associations happy, since they usually control pugilistic entertainment in most states), rules to deal with limitations on bodily injury (is it sport entertainment or illegal assault?), rules to deal with potential accidents (liability waivers to cover the eventuality of one participant causing crippling or lethal injury to the others).
UFC, Pride, K-1, Pancrase... All chock full of rules and limitations on what techniques are allowed. The athletes that train for such competitive venues train for those venues, not for street combat, since street combat (having little in the way of referees or rules) is different from fighting in a ring for some kind of compensation...
Gambarimasu.
:asian:
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yilisifu
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- Thread Starter
- #111
I remember when the Gracies offered an open challenge to ALL martial artists in a well-known magazine. Nobody responded. The next thing I knew, they'd put together a "no-holds barred" competition....
I saw one which featured some kenpo guy who had to weigh in at around 425 at least. He had to stick a leg out once ina while to see if he was walking or rolling. They touted him as "one of the top kenpo practicioners in the U.S." I never heard of him...nor had anyone else.
Then came the Japanese guy who practiced karate and who they claimed was a "legend" in Japan. Another guy nobody had ever heard of.....
And there was the American youngster who was "one of the top kung-fu instructors" in the nation. As Nat'l Chairman of the largest kung-fu organization in the U.S., I would have known such a person but I'd never heard of this kid.
And guess what? THEY ALL GOT BEAT! Not too awfully strange, considering the Gracies owned the event, lock, stock, and barrel......
I watched the Gracie grappler move in with some funky kicks that probably would have broken his toes against the opponent's shin if he'd made contact (which he didn't)...I watched him apply an arm bar with the guy's hand right next to his gonads...but the guy did nothing. I saw Royce in all kinds of positions wherein his opponent could have easily slipped a hand into a pressure point and squeezed or thrust (or crushed his testicles), but nobody did anything....they just laid there until they finally submitted!
Not too surprising, considering who owned the event.....
Such competitions prove absolutely nothing. Yiliquan1 is right; each state has a Boxing Commission which handles ALL pugilistic events and they tend to be VERY persnickety when it comes to what can and can't be allowed. They're worried about legalities; criminal negligence (allowing or encouraging criminal assault), lawsuits (waivers mean nothing) and the like.
To find out firsthand if what you do works, take my advice which I gave previously.
I saw one which featured some kenpo guy who had to weigh in at around 425 at least. He had to stick a leg out once ina while to see if he was walking or rolling. They touted him as "one of the top kenpo practicioners in the U.S." I never heard of him...nor had anyone else.
Then came the Japanese guy who practiced karate and who they claimed was a "legend" in Japan. Another guy nobody had ever heard of.....
And there was the American youngster who was "one of the top kung-fu instructors" in the nation. As Nat'l Chairman of the largest kung-fu organization in the U.S., I would have known such a person but I'd never heard of this kid.
And guess what? THEY ALL GOT BEAT! Not too awfully strange, considering the Gracies owned the event, lock, stock, and barrel......
I watched the Gracie grappler move in with some funky kicks that probably would have broken his toes against the opponent's shin if he'd made contact (which he didn't)...I watched him apply an arm bar with the guy's hand right next to his gonads...but the guy did nothing. I saw Royce in all kinds of positions wherein his opponent could have easily slipped a hand into a pressure point and squeezed or thrust (or crushed his testicles), but nobody did anything....they just laid there until they finally submitted!
Not too surprising, considering who owned the event.....
Such competitions prove absolutely nothing. Yiliquan1 is right; each state has a Boxing Commission which handles ALL pugilistic events and they tend to be VERY persnickety when it comes to what can and can't be allowed. They're worried about legalities; criminal negligence (allowing or encouraging criminal assault), lawsuits (waivers mean nothing) and the like.
To find out firsthand if what you do works, take my advice which I gave previously.
Matt Stone
Master of Arts
It is my understanding that the conflicts between local laws and local boxing commission requirements and regulations is what keeps the UFC and other copy cat events confined to certain states...
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yilisifu
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- Thread Starter
- #113
That's true. And it's why UFC and similar events are not truly "no holds barred."
Thus, not real combat.
Nice Speedos, though.
Kind of like WWF without the soap-opera plots.
Thus, not real combat.
Nice Speedos, though.
Kind of like WWF without the soap-opera plots.
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J-kid
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- Thread Starter
- #114
They used to be and there are still a few but hard to find and offen underground.
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bob919
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- Thread Starter
- #115
i do full contact NHB sparring with a few friends of mine i say NHB but there is no eye gouges groin shots or knee kicks allowed we all want to be able to see walk and have babies
anyway it really hardens you we all train together and we are all exceptional fighters and all pretty evenly matched but i am of course better
anyway it really hardens you we all train together and we are all exceptional fighters and all pretty evenly matched but i am of course better
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bob919
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- Thread Starter
- #116
we do semi contact two for training we have progressed extremely fast because we have had each other for competition
nothing is better than a good training partner
nothing is better than a good training partner
