Somtimes they get it SoOOOOOO Wrong.

Anarax

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Thanks for the videos, but that's not exactly the point of the kick I'm making. It would be similar to a TKD practitioner criticizing a Muay Thai practitioner for throwing the roundhouse "wrong". There's more than one way to throw a roundhouse kick.
 
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JowGaWolf

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Thanks for the videos, but that's not exactly the point of the kick I'm making. It would be similar to a TKD practitioner criticizing a Muay Thai practitioner for throwing the roundhouse "wrong". There's more than one way to throw a roundhouse kick.
You still don't understand what I'm seeing. Which is why I'm planing a free webinar for anyone who is interested in not know only knowing how to deploy this kick but why those defenses that I saw won't work.

The kick that he's talking about is the "oblique kick" which is the same kick that Jow Ga Kung fu refers to as a Shadowless kick or No-shadow kick. It's the same kick in wing chun.. Most people in Traditional Martial arts have seen this kick in their system. Most MMA people know it from Jon Jones. Muay thai people know this kick as a push kick.

You are welcome to attend the webinar if you can. Just make sure that you put your time zone so I can see what types of time zones I'm dealing with. But only if you are interested.
 
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JowGaWolf

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An MT push kick (according to Google ;)) is quite a bit different to your kick against the heavy bag...
Its different when done from the front leg but you can also do it from the rear leg.and that's where the similarities begin to show up. When you think of Push kick don't think of only one way to do one. Push kick is like saying front kick. A front can mean kicking with the toe, heels, or a front snap kick. No shadow kicks are like that as well. There's not just one kick that is referred to as a no-shadow or shadowless kick. here you here Jon Jones say that the Oblique kick is also referred to as a push kick.

around 0:27 you hear him say "push kick to the knee".

In martial arts there isn't always a specific name for kick variation. For example, The technical terms in Jow Ga for a hook punch and the jab are same name. Both are called punches. There's no terminology to distinguished between the two. There are names for combinations of strikes and the name of that combination will determine if you throw a hook or a jab. Push kicks are like that. From what I understand back then things were simple a kick to the knee was just a "push kick to the knee". It didn't need a fancy name.

See push kick mechanics here at 1:00 Rear leg push kick

Here's a rear leg heel push kick. In Jow Ga this push kick with the heel is just our front-kick. So is the oblique kick different' than a push kick. The answer is yes and no. just depending on what which push kick you are actually referring to. So when I say that Muay Thai practitioners know this kick as a push kick.Then that's true.
 

dvcochran

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Its different when done from the front leg but you can also do it from the rear leg.and that's where the similarities begin to show up. When you think of Push kick don't think of only one way to do one. Push kick is like saying front kick. A front can mean kicking with the toe, heels, or a front snap kick. No shadow kicks are like that as well. There's not just one kick that is referred to as a no-shadow or shadowless kick. here you here Jon Jones say that the Oblique kick is also referred to as a push kick.

around 0:27 you hear him say "push kick to the knee".

In martial arts there isn't always a specific name for kick variation. For example, The technical terms in Jow Ga for a hook punch and the jab are same name. Both are called punches. There's no terminology to distinguished between the two. There are names for combinations of strikes and the name of that combination will determine if you throw a hook or a jab. Push kicks are like that. From what I understand back then things were simple a kick to the knee was just a "push kick to the knee". It didn't need a fancy name.

See push kick mechanics here at 1:00 Rear leg push kick

Here's a rear leg heel push kick. In Jow Ga this push kick with the heel is just our front-kick. So is the oblique kick different' than a push kick. The answer is yes and no. just depending on what which push kick you are actually referring to. So when I say that Muay Thai practitioners know this kick as a push kick.Then that's true.
I think the kick in the 1st and 3rd videos are similar. The MT kick in the 2nd uses much less knee, akin to the shin kick shown in one of the videos. Makes a very good shin kick.
I use the toe/ball when needing a little extra reach in sparring (which is most of the time:)). As stated the heel can be a harder kick depending on where it lands. Most people cannot get the rest of their foot out of the way enough to make it a more effective front(ish) kick unless it is sternum or higher, or unless it is a downward angled kick, like to a thigh. This is a big reason I like using the knee & hips in the kick if it is knee level or higher, putting enough snap and drive to consistently do damage with the ball of the foot.
Thank you for the effort on the video. Having something visual to talk around is great.
 
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JowGaWolf

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I think the kick in the 1st and 3rd videos are similar. The MT kick in the 2nd uses much less knee, akin to the shin kick shown in one of the videos. Makes a very good shin kick.
I use the toe/ball when needing a little extra reach in sparring (which is most of the time:)). As stated the heel can be a harder kick depending on where it lands. Most people cannot get the rest of their foot out of the way enough to make it a more effective front(ish) kick unless it is sternum or higher, or unless it is a downward angled kick, like to a thigh. This is a big reason I like using the knee & hips in the kick if it is knee level or higher, putting enough snap and drive to consistently do damage with the ball of the foot.
Thank you for the effort on the video. Having something visual to talk around is great.
I agree with you. That toe/ball of the foot does give considerably more reach than trying to put the heel in the same location.

I'm happy to make the videos. I'll be making more of them in the future.
 

jobo

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I was looking for a picture of a low kick for a different post and came across this video. This is defense against the "Oblique kick" and the defenses here are garbage.

1. The kick is extremely quick and it usually happens in a moments notice. There's no wind up to it.
2. Unlike other kicks, this kick works because the attacker is waiting for you to be in the worst possible position to defend against it, which is usually bearing weight on the lead leg.
3. This is a high success rate technique. The only reason it doesn't work is because the person doing it sucks at it.
4. This kick targets the rooting leg, So trying to leg check it is just going to make me go after that nice one leg stance

The kick doesn't always have to "stomp down" an a person's leg. I shoot my kick out horizontally to strike the shins.Which causes internal damage to the calf muscle.as the shock from the kick literally bounces the muscle away from the bone.and then slams the muscle back into the bone. (I learned this the hard way).

These defenses do not and will not work against someone who knows how to use this kick.

This stuff reminds me of some Kung Fu stuff where the guys make assumptions about defending against a strike and just say, "yeah all you have to do, is do this" and it's never based on the experience of having to deal with that particular strike.

Lesson to learn: Do do this stuff if you are trying to defend against that type of kick. You'll lose every time if the person is good and you'll put yourself in more danger
unfortunately this debate is now stretched over multiple threads, which makes it impossible to follow,

but yes i agree with you, those defences are dependent on extreme speed /anticipation. at that range you need almost superhuman reactions or some extreme telegraphing of the kick to make those defences work. so not impossible, just supreme optimism unlikely.


a for the one ere he put his shin in the way, i really wouldn't try that against someone with a robust pair of shoes on, even if your fast enough your going to end up with a serious limp

i had the same debate at class with someone who insisted in guarding kicks by sticking their knee out, i put my training shoes on and,,,,,, well they never did it again
 
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JowGaWolf

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unfortunately this debate is now stretched over multiple threads, which makes it impossible to follow,

but yes i agree with you, those defences are dependent on extreme speed /anticipation. at that range you need almost superhuman reactions or some extreme telegraphing of the kick to make those defences work. so not impossible, just supreme optimism unlikely.


a for the one ere he put his shin in the way, i really wouldn't try that against someone with a robust pair of shoes on, even if your fast enough your going to end up with a serious limp

i had the same debate at class with someone who insisted in guarding kicks by sticking their knee out, i put my training shoes on and,,,,,, well they never did it again
Yeah the topic is in multiple threads. Unfortunately it couldn't be helped once the idea for the webinar came to mind. The next one will be better organized after I get a feel for the best time for most.

As for shoes and shins. yeah you're right about that. I experienced that first hand. My training took the skin off my shin and then kicked the exposed nerves in the wound. That was painful. I don't want to feel the full strength version where someone kicks with cruelty.

I'm like you. I don't want freely offer my shins like that. I can tuff guy the first kick but I don't think I could take a second one even adrenaline pumping. I'm not saying I would stop fighting but my legs can only take so much damage before they give out. My mind may say "bring it on" but leg will surely say "no mas" and take the 8 count.
 

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