Some Advice from a 7 Year Old

[skribs]

IMO - Not perfect. There are 3 types of learners and of course most people learn with all 3 but one or more to a greater or lesser extent. The types are Auditory, Visual and Tactile. Auditory / telling people is great for teaching large numbers of people especially if nuances of the action are not as important. There can be issues of interpreting or understanding the verbal instruction. Visual learners will learn better by watching / seeing the technique but may need to be shown up close and from multiple angles. Tactile need to feel the motion / placement. So, the methodology should include Auditory and visual and then tactile as needed.

The reason he calls it the perfect adjustment is because you adjust and then say "perfect".

 

[Oily Dragon]

Hoo boy, consent in the martial arts in 2023 is nothing like it used to be.

There is a huge range out there from parents who have no issue with instructors pawing or smacking their kids to parents who don't ever want to see an instructor touching their kids (ie kids should work with kids).

There are plenty of horror stories out there of coaches of all types physically or sexually abusing students, and not limited to MA. Gymnastic/wrestling coaches and doctors come to mind...usually because parents are out to lunch.

But any parent of a minor and the minor themselves has full rights to their body, and those don't vanish by walking into a school or signing a contract.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Bottom line, my daughter says she doesn't want to be touched if it is not necessary. So it's the opinion of a customer really.

As for me, as a male, no I won't touch kids if I can avoid it. I used to touch feet , and one kid said not to do so. That stuck and I try not to touch if I don't have to.

Exactly. This is a VERY touchy subject. Har har.

Seriously, I don't care what people teach. You better watch yourself physically engaged with minors. It's 2023, not Ming Dynasty China or 19th century Japan.

Honestly, I always prefer showing vs touching with younger kids. Mostly because everything I can teach is dangerous and I don't want to get sued for injuring a kid, let alone be accused of being feely with one.

Gender doesn't even matter.

 

[BobY777]

The reason he calls it the perfect adjustment is because you adjust and then say "perfect".

But how do you teach kids discipline if not these things? If we don't be strict with them our art turns into dance

 

[skribs]

But how do you teach kids discipline if not these things? If we don't be strict with them our art turns into dance

I don't even know what point you're trying to make. How does correcting their technique give them a lack of discipline? Also, I've done ballet, and it requires a tremendous amount of discipline.

 

[HighKick]

My daughter took TKD and lost interest after 3 months, and didn't want to go back after 6 months. Here is some things she despised - and advice for teachers.

Funny enough, these were all things I told instructors...

1) Don't give 6-7 year girls 20 pushups. IT"S POINTLESS! You might as well ask the 40 year old father to do an oversplit.

2) Don't touch kids if you don't have to. If you want to change a kid's stance, just tell them. Don't kick their legs out with your leg.

3) As Ricardo Montalban says, "Smiles everyone, smiles!" This isn't the military. No one has to be there. Remember that if the kids don't find it fun or happy, they won't continue.

End of rant!

1.) Fully agree, but there has to be a uniform means of discipline. The person comes to the Martial Art, not the other way around. Even at 7-years-old.
2.) I have been teaching (TKD) since the mid '80's and have always been a very tactile teacher. I have Never had a complaint or problem. It is all in how it is done. And again, being uniform and transparent is paramount. I Never kick a kids leg out from under them. How to you think rolling styles could get anything done without touching?
There are three ways we learn anything, visually, audibly, or tactilely. For most people, it takes all three in to fully or quickly grasp a physical movement.
3.) Meh.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The person comes to the Martial Art, not the other way around.

Agree with you 100% there. I don't think a MA school be treated like a restaurant and tries to please all customers. If your send your kid to a wrestling school, body contact will start on day 1.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

Agree with you 100% there. I don't think a MA school be treated like a restaurant and tries to please all customers. If your send your kid to a wrestling school, body contact will start on day 1.

Well, I look at it as a business. Wrestlling tends to be less of a business and more of a club - correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

General Choi would teach to always correct with your hands i.e. if the stance needed correction, even at 80 years old he would get down on his hands and knees and use his hands (Not his feet) to adjust foot position of the stance.

That is exactly what I had done when a kid was quite perturbed and asked that I not touch the feet, just tell. I took that to heart.

 

[HighKick]

Well, I look at it as a business. Wrestlling tends to be less of a business and more of a club - correct me if I am wrong.

I think of wrestling as a sport that is primarily done while in school or college. I am sure they exist, but I can't say I have seen a for profit wrestling school. Coaches? Yes, but they worked at the schools I went to.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

As a male teacher, do you have any issue to touch an adult female student in order to correct her MA technique?

If the answer is

- yes, how do you teach a female student?
- no, what's the difference between a female adult and a female kid?

I avoid touching both boys and girls.

I do touch if it seems to be needed and with consent.

For example, I was trying to get a kid to have a straight wrist in a punch, and I was showing him, and after saying something like, "no straighter, like this"...and him saying "I don't know how I can be straighter"....I then just adjusted his fist /wrist and he said thanks.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

I can see your issue is "male touch female". Do you have any issue with "female touch male"?

After posting this and seeing many comments on the touching aspect, I got thinking of my Canadian basic military training (i.e., as a private) in 1987.

There was a female lieutenant, and if something about your uniform was wrong during inspection, she would say "Your (blank) is crooked. I will touch your person to straighten it."

My male friends and I thought it was odd, since we figured she was the higher rank and could do as she wished.

I get it now. It's about consent, and having everyone hear that she was touching for a work-related reason.

I think about it now, and I think she was way ahead of her time in 1987.

 

[drop bear]

But how do you teach kids discipline if not these things? If we don't be strict with them our art turns into dance

Professional more than strict. Or the art turns in to a cult. And you get the same problems.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Bottom line, my daughter says she doesn't want to be touched if it is not necessary. So it's the opinion of a customer really.

If the opinion of the 7 year old customer is they don't like how the product or service is offered and can't understand why it is offered that way they should find another Seller. If enough customers vote with their wallet the problem gets resolved one way or another.

 

[J. Pickard]

Don't give 6-7 year girls 20 pushups

Who is doing this? this should be a no brainer. With our class that age group we do what we call "dragon pushups". Its a simple variation that focuses on teaching kids how to get into a good plank for a pushup without the actual pushup. And they get to roar like a dragon so it's fun.

Don't touch kids if you don't have to

outside of hi-fives, and that one kid that always wants to give everyone a hug, this also just seems like common sense to me.

I think your post highlights to me that MA for kids is NOT real MA and being a good MA instructor does not mean you are a good instructor for kids. Its a purposefully watered down variation to give kids the mental and physical benefits of martial arts in a way that they can handle and most serious martial artists are not going to be good at teaching at this level. We require all of our instructors for kids under 10 to take a short course on childhood development. We just recently started a class for 3 to young 5 year olds because one of my senior students is a preschool teacher and decided she wanted to run a special class for that age. I would not let anyone with less credentials than that run a class for that age.

 

[J. Pickard]

At 6 years old it doesn't matter as much. They are still getting used to their bodies and how to make it move. The best way is to let them get there naturally. Get into the details when their body gets stronger and gains better coordination abilities

100%. You can occasionally find that prodigy that is as capable as a young adult, but most kids have no awareness of their own body so even if you physically fix whatever the issue is, the next move will be wrong again anyway.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Bottom line, my daughter says she doesn't want to be touched if it is not necessary. So it's the opinion of a customer really.

As for me, as a male, no I won't touch kids if I can avoid it. I used to touch feet , and one kid said not to do so. That stuck and I try not to touch if I don't have to.

I agree with your position. If a parent tells me not to touch then I don't touch. Parents know their kids and there could be 100 reasons why a parent doesn't want someone to touch their child. A child who determines that they feel uncomfortable about being touch should be allowed that space. We aren't talking about a 10 year old. We are talking about. 7 year old who isn't comfortable with the world or strangers. Which is how it should be. Allow kids to have their comfort zone

 

[J. Pickard]

How to you think rolling styles could get anything done without touching?

Since this is specifically addressing a kids TKD class, I don't think this applies. But in the context of rolling, I don't teach grappling to kids but the place I train BJJ does and these are my observations. 1. there are always a minimum of 2 instructors, they demonstrate simple moves with each other and then let the kids try on the grappling dummies, and on special classes with a partner. 2. When they do have to touch they typically gently place two fingerstips or so on the arm, leg, back, or whatever part the kid needs to adjust and then touches the location on the mat, or the opponents arms, or back where they need to move to. In the case that they need to address a spot on the childs front or around the hips the instructors just point.

I think this is a safe, and comfortable way to work with kids using minimal contact and allowing the kids to get used to you.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Since this is specifically addressing a kids TKD class, I don't think this applies. But in the context of rolling, I don't teach grappling to kids but the place I train BJJ does and these are my observations. 1. there are always a minimum of 2 instructors, they demonstrate simple moves with each other and then let the kids try on the grappling dummies, and on special classes with a partner. 2. When they do have to touch they typically gently place two fingerstips or so on the arm, leg, back, or whatever part the kid needs to adjust and then touches the location on the mat, or the opponents arms, or back where they need to move to. In the case that they need to address a spot on the childs front or around the hips the instructors just point.

I think this is a safe, and comfortable way to work with kids using minimal contact and allowing the kids to get used to you.

The 2 instructor rule is a must. I was never left alone e with kids. I always made sure I had a witness.

This is always the rule no matter what I do. Kids will lie one you. Parents will also use their kids for financial games by exaggerating what they think they see. It's impossible to know who would exploit the situation so I always made sure I was covered.

The school that I taught at had it good because parents participated with there child if they were under 8.

 

[Gyakuto]

IMO - Not perfect. There are 3 types of learners and of course most people learn with all 3 but one or more to a greater or lesser extent. The types are Auditory, Visual and Tactile. Auditory / telling people is great for teaching large numbers of people especially if nuances of the action are not as important. There can be issues of interpreting or understanding the verbal instruction. Visual learners will learn better by watching / seeing the technique but may need to be shown up close and from multiple angles. Tactile need to feel the motion / placement. So, the methodology should include Auditory and visual and then tactile as needed.

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