Some Advice from a 7 Year Old

[Gwai Lo Dan]

My daughter took TKD and lost interest after 3 months, and didn't want to go back after 6 months. Here is some things she despised - and advice for teachers.

Funny enough, these were all things I told instructors...

1) Don't give 6-7 year girls 20 pushups. IT"S POINTLESS! You might as well ask the 40 year old father to do an oversplit.

2) Don't touch kids if you don't have to. If you want to change a kid's stance, just tell them. Don't kick their legs out with your leg.

3) As Ricardo Montalban says, "Smiles everyone, smiles!" This isn't the military. No one has to be there. Remember that if the kids don't find it fun or happy, they won't continue.

End of rant!

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

No one has to be there.

If a kid doesn't want to learn, the teacher should not teach that kid.

One day a father brought his boy to my school. Right after the father left, the boy started to cry. I called his father and asked him to take his boy home.

MA is not for everybody. The best story that I can remember is this:

A: You keep telling me to come back next month. I don't mind to come back next month. But when will you start to teach me?
B: Today, you still don't have strong desire to learn MA yet.
A: What's strong desire?
B: The desire to breath after someone pushes your head into the water for over a minute.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

1) Don't give 6-7 year girls 20 pushups. IT"S POINTLESS! You might as well ask the 40 year old father to do an oversplit.

When I was 7, I used to put a small rock among my 3 fingertips. I squeezed that small rock every day. Hoped one day I could squeeze that small rock into powder. I believed if I could do that, I could sink my fingers into my opponent's bone.

There is a big difference between

- someone forces you to do something, and
- you really want to do something badly yourself.

 

[Earl Weiss]

If a kid doesn't want to learn, the teacher should not teach that kid.

One day a father brought his boy to my school. Right after the father left, the boy started to cry. I called his father and asked him to take his boy home.

Had a young boy cry and leave first day. Of course I figured I would never see him again. I was wrong - he came back and trained for 6 years to reach BB.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

If a kid doesn't want to learn, the teacher should not teach that kid.

One day a father brought his boy to my school. Right after the father left, the boy started to cry. I called his father and asked him to take his boy home.

Kids are weird, especially at that age. They could do something 10 times, cry about it 3 and love it the other 7.

They may also love martial arts, but not love being yelled at and spending half the time doing pushups at 6 years old. Tailoring to the demographic is important.

 

[JowGaWolf]

My experience with kids is that they want to train with you. For a child when the adult does a push up the child will be happy to join. This is what they see as attention. If the adult isn't doing the same thing then the child sees it as an adult telling them what to do.

If I want a child to do 20 push ups then I would do the push ups with them. I would also fake struggling at push up # 5. If the child can do more than 5 push ups then they will feel the accomplishment of doing more than an adult.
The next thing I would show is determination for me to reach 20. This will show the child a no quit attitude and it gives the teacher a way to show how to reach 20 push ups by taking short breaks.

I would also allow the child to reach 20 push ups before me. I found this to be more beneficial on a wide range of things beyond just doing push ups.

I used to train a 6 year old. What ever she did I did. Her training was my training. She followed me step for step and I watched step for step.
Every effort ended with a high five and a "good Job".

She trained with her dad as well who helped us managed the mood swings that come with us bring tired. She was better than some of the adult students. The other instructor was different. He would watch and then he would correct her form. She didn't like that. I think the most I corrected was how to make a fist.

One day her dad told me that she hit a classmate in school. He was happy that she stood up for herself but wish her response was more measured lol. At that point making a decent fist means more than perfection with the form. For the most part kids learn at their own pace. Trying to push beyond that will result in losing a student and wasting ime and effort.

Teaching kids takes more effort and patience than teaching adults. Some teachers are really bad at it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

My experience with kids is that they want to train with you. For a child when the adult does a push up the child will be happy to join. This is what they see as attention. If the adult isn't doing the same thing then the child sees it as an adult telling them what to do.

If I want a child to do 20 push ups then I would do the push ups with them. I would also fake struggling at push up # 5. If the child can do more than 5 push ups then they will feel the accomplishment of doing more than an adult.
The next thing I would show is determination for me to reach 20. This will show the child a no quit attitude and it gives the teacher a way to show how to reach 20 push ups by taking short breaks.

I would also allow the child to reach 20 push ups before me. I found this to be more beneficial on a wide range of things beyond just doing push ups.

I used to train a 6 year old. What ever she did I did. Her training was my training. She followed me step for step and I watched step for step.
Every effort ended with a high five and a "good Job".

She trained with her dad as well who helped us managed the mood swings that come with us bring tired. She was better than some of the adult students. The other instructor was different. He would watch and then he would correct her form. She didn't like that. I think the most I corrected was how to make a fist.

One day her dad told me that she hit a classmate in school. He was happy that she stood up for herself but wish her response was more measured lol. At that point making a decent fist means more than perfection with the form. For the most part kids learn at their own pace. Trying to push beyond that will result in losing a student and wasting ime and effort.

Teaching kids takes more effort and patience than teaching adults. Some teachers are really bad at it.

I think I've always felt like a guardian with kids than a teacher. Parents gave me the one thing that matters the most in their life and that's the safety of their child mentally and physically. I guess it's part of my protective nature.

 

[JowGaWolf]

A child that cries may not be crying because they don't want to be there. That child may simply not want the parent to leave. The question is more if the instructor wants to deal with the crying. If you have other younger kids around the same age t b en those kids may comfort the child for you.

 

[skribs]

2) Don't touch kids if you don't have to. If you want to change a kid's stance, just tell them. Don't kick their legs out with your leg.

99% of the time, in the beginner's class, they will not be able to follow the direction properly. 90% of the time they either move the wrong way, don't move at all, or move 1mm in the direction you wanted. Or they move, but adjust the other leg so the stance is the same.

 

[JowGaWolf]

99% of the time, in the beginner's class, they will not be able to follow the direction properly. 90% of the time they either move the wrong way, don't move at all, or move 1mm in the direction you wanted. Or they move, but adjust the other leg so the stance is the same.

At 6 years old it doesn't matter as much. They are still getting used to their bodies and how to make it move. The best way is to let them get there naturally. Get into the details when their body gets stronger and gains better coordination abilities

 

[skribs]

99% of the time, in the beginner's class, they will not be able to follow the direction properly. 90% of the time they either move the wrong way, don't move at all, or move 1mm in the direction you wanted. Or they move, but adjust the other leg so the stance is the same.

To expand on this:

The Taekwondo school where I did the main part of my training, quite often in the little kids class, the first week or two was basically an instructor moving them how they needed to move to do the techniques. Use your legs to adjust their stance. Use your hands to adjust their arms. Sometimes even moving them to punch. I'm talking the 4-7 year old class. As they figure it out, the amount of hands-on backs off. (Or if they start treating it like cuddles).

The TKD school where I recently spent my time chastised both this approach (that it's disrespectful to use your legs to adjust their stance) and also the approach of just standing there talking. They wanted instructors to be a servant, and to get down and use their hands to move their stance.

It's not just TKD. Here's a clip from the Gracie's about the "perfect adjustment."

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

It's not just TKD. Here's a clip from the Gracie's about the "perfect adjustment."

The difference to me is that these guys are both adult males. I once told a 20 year old male instructor who I noticed touching the shoulders of a girl to change her stance, "in my opinion, with you being a 20 year old male, it really isn't in your best interest to touch the girls if you can avoid it. Just consider it". I think the light bulb went off in his head.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

If a kid doesn't want to learn, the teacher should not teach that kid.

The kid may want to be there if it is fun, or not want to be there if it is constant criticism and barking orders.

When I taught, I tried to sound like this was fun, and I would ask the kids questions when I can to engage them. Example during warm-up "ok, each row will count 10 jumping jacks. So with 4 rows, that's 10, 10, 10 10. Who knows how many jumping jacks that is?"

I was only a volunteer.

One day, a parent said, "oh good, you're teaching today. My daughter likes when you teach."

That's the key - to get the kids to want to learn tkd.

 

[skribs]

The difference to me is that these guys are both adult males. I once told a 20 year old male instructor who I noticed touching the shoulders of a girl to change her stance, "in my opinion, with you being a 20 year old male, it really isn't in your best interest to touch the girls if you can avoid it. Just consider it". I think the light bulb went off in his head.

They're talking about teaching kids classes.

I've touched plenty of kids in teaching TKD and now in teaching BJJ. I've never had a girl or parent complain that I touched them to fix their technique. I rolled with a couple of different girls around age 10-12 yesterday in BJJ class, which is much more contact than touching their shoulder. That was my job as the coach.

I think you're making this into something it's not.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

They're talking about teaching kids classes.

I've touched plenty of kids in teaching TKD and now in teaching BJJ. I've never had a girl or parent complain that I touched them to fix their technique. I rolled with a couple of different girls around age 10-12 yesterday in BJJ class, which is much more contact than touching their shoulder. That was my job as the coach.

I think you're making this into something it's not.

Bottom line, my daughter says she doesn't want to be touched if it is not necessary. So it's the opinion of a customer really.

As for me, as a male, no I won't touch kids if I can avoid it. I used to touch feet , and one kid said not to do so. That stuck and I try not to touch if I don't have to.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

As for me, as a male, no I won't touch kids if I can avoid it.

MA is not 1 person art. MA is 2 persons art and that require body contact. How can you teach a girl any joint locking or take down skill if she doesn't want to be touched?

Do you have any concern about girl wrestles with boy?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

As for me, as a male, no I won't touch kids if I can avoid it.

As a male teacher, do you have any issue to touch an adult female student in order to correct her MA technique?

If the answer is

- yes, how do you teach a female student?
- no, what's the difference between a female adult and a female kid?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

in my opinion, with you being a 20 year old male, it really isn't in your best interest to touch the girls if you can avoid it.

I can see your issue is "male touch female". Do you have any issue with "female touch male"?

I still remember when I taught a Taiji class in Austin YWCA (about 25 girls). Every time I walked into that class, there were at least 3 different girls who touched my body and said, "As hard as rock". "Man of iron". "How did you build a body like that?", ... I always felt I was a poor sheep that was surrounded by a pack of hungry wolves.

 

[Earl Weiss]

It's not just TKD. Here's a clip from the Gracie's about the "perfect adjustment."

IMO - Not perfect. There are 3 types of learners and of course most people learn with all 3 but one or more to a greater or lesser extent. The types are Auditory, Visual and Tactile. Auditory / telling people is great for teaching large numbers of people especially if nuances of the action are not as important. There can be issues of interpreting or understanding the verbal instruction. Visual learners will learn better by watching / seeing the technique but may need to be shown up close and from multiple angles. Tactile need to feel the motion / placement. So, the methodology should include Auditory and visual and then tactile as needed.

 

[Earl Weiss]

2) Don't touch kids if you don't have to. If you want to change a kid's stance, just tell them. Don't kick their legs out with your leg.

General Choi would teach to always correct with your hands i.e. if the stance needed correction, even at 80 years old he would get down on his hands and knees and use his hands (Not his feet) to adjust foot position of the stance. Many students have difficulty learning a physical action thru auditory and visual means alone. I often will use the end of a kicking paddle as the contact point to adjust the body position to reduce hand on body contact - but it is not always the best option.