Some Advice from a 7 Year Old

[Gerry Seymour]

Jumping in right here. Is it clearly the case? I disagree. It's only the case if fighting skills are particularly important. Forgive me, guys, but it really seems like you have an antiquated idea of what bullying looks like in the 2020s. Bullying today is way more likely to be emotional, social, and/or psychological. Even where a kid is being physically bullied, learning skills to fight is no more (or less) helpful than being able to throw a football or play the clarinet. The benefits of participating in organized activities is universal, regardless of the specific activity.



Confidence... you're on to something there. Confidence, self esteem, community, mentorship, coaching... these things help kids handle bullying. And it has very little to do with how good an individual kid is at whatever it is they're doing. They can fully enjoy the ancillary benefits mentioned above, even if they stink at the actual activity.



My opinions are pretty simple, and if you go back to the various threads over the years, I've been very consistent.

1. If you're going to learn something... anything... you need to do that thing. If you want to get better at something... anything... you need to actually apply what you learn and make real world mistakes. Otherwise, the best you can ever hope to achieve is to be a functional beginner.
2. Knowing how to fight is not a bad thing. Don't get me wrong. But if you want to learn to fight, see above.
3. If being safer is your goal, there are so many things a person can do to mitigate real world risk other than learning to fight. There have been several threads over the years where I've gone into this idea in detail.
4. Sometimes, it's just bad or good luck, and we tend to blame the victim for bad luck and congratulate the system for good luck. I think neither is all that helpful or constructive.

Exactly. Further, fighting skills that MA may (or may not) be all that good at teaching are functionally irrelevant if you're talking about real world bullies.

Edit: There is one other related point that I've made over the years. While it's relatively unimportant (IMO) how good a kid is at the activity, it's important that they're learning and practicing actual skills. For example, it doesn't really matter how good an individual kid is at wrestling, it's important that they are learning and practicing useful wrestling skills. I believe "self defense" martial arts schools generally drop the ball in this area if they state or even imply that fighting skills are being learned.

Ah! I think I've spotted our real difference in this conversation, and it's more semantic than I'd given credit for. We're just interepreting a phrase differently. The phrase: "an advantage".

I was reading it (in context) as, "MA has no advantage over any other activity..." in relation to bullies. Of course, I can show that it does, in some situations (when the bullying becomes physical), and in comparison to some activities (tennis, crocheting, chess).

I think you were reading it (equally validly) more as "an overall advantage" in relation to bullies. And I'd agree. Anything that builds confidence, self-awareness, and a sense of agency (among other things) would be more useful than fighting skills for most bullying. Sure, MA could be the way to develop those things, but it doesn't have an inherent advantage over other activities there.

So, yeah, I can dig what you're saying. You make a good point, and one I wouldn't argue against.

 

[Buka]

Seems to me that there are people that bullies will pick on and other people that they will not. That range is from children to adults.

Maybe not everywhere in the world, but in all the places I’ve lived.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

Seems to me that there are people that bullies will pick on and other people that they will not. That range is from children to adults.

Maybe not everywhere in the world, but in all the places I’ve lived.

It sounds like a joke when I say this, but I wonder if joining the debate club would be as good for bully-proofing as anything else.

 

[Dirty Dog]

It sounds like a joke when I say this, but I wonder if joining the debate club would be as good for bully-proofing as anything else.

It's certainly good to be able to think and talk on your feet.

 

[Oily Dragon]

It sounds like a joke when I say this, but I wonder if joining the debate club would be as good for bully-proofing as anything else.

To a degree. Learning how to out debate someone in a moderated debate is all about winning the room, not necessarily being correct.

Keeping a physical bully away? Your IQ is probably better spent on avoiding the bully's hunting zones and knowing their daily schedule.

How you talk to them depends on why they bully. Some of them want friends, some are flat out psychos.

But none of them appreciate being outmatched with words. Speaking from experience.

 

[Steve]

It sounds like a joke when I say this, but I wonder if joining the debate club would be as good for bully-proofing as anything else.

I believe so, but not primarily because you’re learning debate skills. In my opinion, if you’re focused on the debate skills, you are thinking about the wrong stuff. It’s like talking about whether a job would help pay bills and focusing on the 15% discount instead of the paycheck.

 

[JowGaWolf]

To a degree. Learning how to out debate someone in a moderated debate is all about winning the room, not necessarily being correct

That's why I don't like debating. X being correct doesn't matter. Then everyone gets deflated that stuff doesn't work.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

It's certainly good to be able to think and talk on your feet.

There is a grammar joke in there somewhere…

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

To a degree. Learning how to out debate someone in a moderated debate is all about winning the room, not necessarily being correct.

Keeping a physical bully away? Your IQ is probably better spent on avoiding the bully's hunting zones and knowing their daily schedule.

How you talk to them depends on why they bully. Some of them want friends, some are flat out psychos.

But none of them appreciate being outmatched with words. Speaking from experience.

View attachment 30265

Somehow I a picture how all of this happened.

 

[Steve]

To a degree. Learning how to out debate someone in a moderated debate is all about winning the room, not necessarily being correct.

Keeping a physical bully away? Your IQ is probably better spent on avoiding the bully's hunting zones and knowing their daily schedule.

How you talk to them depends on why they bully. Some of them want friends, some are flat out psychos.

But none of them appreciate being outmatched with words. Speaking from experience.

View attachment 30265

That's why I don't like debating. X being correct doesn't matter. Then everyone gets deflated that stuff doesn't work.

You guys sound like a couple of dudes who have no idea how debate teams actually work.

 

[JowGaWolf]

You guys sound like a couple of dudes who have no idea how debate teams actually work.

I'm pretty sure I made no mention about a debate team.. so what debate teams do are of no concern to me.

 

[Oily Dragon]

You guys sound like a couple of dudes who have no idea how debate teams actually work.

Spoken like a true lawyer.

For the record, I only highlight in pink, but I never perfume.

 

[Oily Dragon]

I'm pretty sure I made no mention about a debate team.. so what debate teams do are of no concern to me.

They should be.

They control your destiny. Haven't you seen Star Wars?

 

[JowGaWolf]

They should be.

They control your destiny. Haven't you seen Star Wars?

Nope they are still not a team. They are self-serving. We don't have to to look far to see good examples of this in today's society.

Ouroboros is a better picture. One that turns in itself and feasts on its own filth. I'm not saying debaters are like this. It's just a better picture of those in that star wars reference you give. Children who don't know when it's time to play and when it's time do be serious all because they seek to an illusion of power. At least Drath Vader would choke someone out lol.

Of all the ways to get rid of someone with the force he picked the one way where they or forced to listen and forced to shut up lol

 

[Steve]

I'm pretty sure I made no mention about a debate team.. so what debate teams do are of no concern to me.

Okay. So we are just doing loose word association now? That’s going to make conversation very difficult. The context for mentioning debate was bullying and the relative benefits of participation in that activity.

 

[Steve]

Spoken like a true lawyer.

For the record, I only highlight in pink, but I never perfume.

Irony.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Okay. So we are just doing loose word association now? That’s going to make conversation very difficult. The context for mentioning debate was bullying and the relative benefits of participation in that activity.

Nope. nothing else needs to be said on my end. lol.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

It's certainly good to be able to think and talk on your feet.

Yes, I'm thinking of someone not shy to speak up. I'm guessing that the bully will want someone "who will just take it".