So what is a DATU of Modern Arnis

[Rich Parsons]

I never question the ranks of the Datus.Only the definiton.Even Hong Kong Phoo ee on this post stated it mean chiefton or spiritual leader.How is it the terminology or definition when stated by be is also stated by others but I get dummed on.Not 1 person said pro or con to the definition that HKF did.I hold a rank as guardian.This dose not (to me mean I am the flame keeper as some say.To me -read this & see if you see it as my point & why i have it>To me it means the same as the 4 Guardians of Karate & at the time Funakosho was 1.To me the guardian means I protect the art & make sure Its precieved or tought right.Like I state in the Who is Tom Carnes thred -The Presas family was talked to me many hours on the phone & have video of me & copies of my ranks.Remy jr. Hooked up with Kelly Warden As he has money & can promote seminars.I am just me.No big school.Just privote out of the house like a lot of my teacher did,Bruce Lee-James Lee-Conyete-Telisporo-Subing Subing- to name a few.I had the best of the best teachers.Jose Presas for example.So Both Remy & ernesto gave me the rank.How is it you cant except it & just lern what I have of offer.I could take a stand & declair the De tranka ect. is far from the combat.I dont & Remy jr. understands why.I dont need to explain to you what transpired between us or Remy or Ernesto.I offer the art.Lern from It & have fun.Give it a try.My ranks are authentic-as well my time in privotes.Like you said Remy took you to side & tought you.,Your not the 1st he did this with.Except he did it with me & have fun.

Tom,

You back pedal and then you change the subject and bring up names of others to divert attention from yourself, and then you also bring up your name dropping again.

All trollish behaviours.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Dan,
The title was awarded apparently by Ernesto. Theres a long read about that and a number of other matters in the locked "Who is Tom Carnes" thread.
On a side note, I finally got Toms video uploaded.
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34778

Ok, back to Datumania.

 

[arnisador]

talk

Passable, but I think 'speak' is preferable here.

Queens

Clearly, should be Queen's (possessive), not Queens (plural).

grammer

Now, this is a personal favorite. 'Grammar' is likely what you're looking for here.

incomprehesible

Missing an 'n'.

Ah, the MartialTalk pile-on. Woe be unto those who 'think different(ly)'.

 

[Edmund BlackAdder]

Well, I never said I finished college. Just that I had some. :wavey:

 

[Dan Anderson]

Dan,
The title was awarded apparently by Ernesto. Theres a long read about that and a number of other matters in the locked "Who is Tom Carnes" thread.
On a side note, I finally got Toms video uploaded.
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34778

Ok, back to Datumania.

Which Tom? Carnes or Bolden? And where? I just visited the video link site and didn't see Tom Carnes. Thanks for the answer to the Q.

Yours,
Dan

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Dan,
Which Tom? Tom Carnes.
Where? At the link I provided. Haven't updated the main video section yet. I put his in Members in Motion for now.

Bob

 

[MJS]

Which Tom? Carnes or Bolden? And where? I just visited the video link site and didn't see Tom Carnes. Thanks for the answer to the Q.

Yours,
Dan

Check this link out Dan.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=554568#post554568

These are clips of Tom Carnes.

Mike

 

[Rich Parsons]

Could I request that this thread be copied and renamed, and then the original be trimmed?

 

[PeteNerd]

Can those that study Modern Arnis give us a description of:

What a Datu is?

What are the qualifications if any?



(* I know the list of six, and if they are referenced or care to reply so much the better. *)

As far as the connotation in the Philippines today, there are still Datus.
The Supreme Council of Datu Alimaong also known as the Holy Warriors. The Holy Warriors is a group of ethnic tribes from the the Visayas and Mindanao. They are an organization that fights for the rights and land of the indigenous people of the philippines.

I witnessed one of their induction ceremonies and it was one of the most amazing things I have ever seen. They were inducting new Datus, and they sacrificed a few chickens and a cow for the ceremony. There were a lot of offerings made to the new datus in way of performances and music. My balintawak instructor and I did a demo as an offering. Then there was a huge feast... it was pretty incredible.


Pete

 

[monkey]

Pete Nerd Im I correct in saying that this highly respected cerimonie is part of the Trible Datu rites?Is it fair to say I was right in the above that
these Datus would not be to found of the ones who didnt go threw such & yet have the title?This is a religous & almost hariteage rite as passed down If I am correct in this definiton of Datu-not so much as to who can or cant but iis it a birth rite like Ive been told?Ive posted above for not putting down the rank just the definition I was told of -was I correct?Look back a few post above yours.Im interested in knowing if I was told the right definiton of Datu.

 

[PeteNerd]

Pete Nerd Im I correct in saying that this highly respected cerimonie is part of the Trible Datu rites?Is it fair to say I was right in the above that
these Datus would not be to found of the ones who didnt go threw such & yet have the title?This is a religous & almost hariteage rite as passed down If I am correct in this definiton of Datu-not so much as to who can or cant but iis it a birth rite like Ive been told?Ive posted above for not putting down the rank just the definition I was told of -was I correct?Look back a few post above yours.Im interested in knowing if I was told the right definiton of Datu.

Yes you are correct... It is pretty much the equivalent of a native american chief or a spiritual/religious leader of the tribes. It's a pretty serious title as far as Filipino tribal society goes. Whether people in modern arnis choose to use the title of datu is none of my business, but I wouldn't take the use of that title lightly. Not sure if the real datus would be offended or not. A lot of filipinos aren't even concerned with their tribal heritage, but the ones that are take it very very seriously.

Pete

 

[monkey]

Thank you for that I was there in 75-79 When jose tought.I got to see a Datu cerimony as well.Some parts back then to a young boy,
were not only odd but fightning.I vowed Id never except past master.
Though the training i did was far more-I say the master should be sufficent for U.S. as the ways there are differant then here.
Do you agree i took a good stand & say let the tribe have the tribe heritage.All others are welcome but,take heed & give honor to the sacrate art of Datu.

 

[Rich Parsons]

As far as the connotation in the Philippines today, there are still Datus.
The Supreme Council of Datu Alimaong also known as the Holy Warriors. The Holy Warriors is a group of ethnic tribes from the the Visayas and Mindanao. They are an organization that fights for the rights and land of the indigenous people of the philippines.

I witnessed one of their induction ceremonies and it was one of the most amazing things I have ever seen. They were inducting new Datus, and they sacrificed a few chickens and a cow for the ceremony. There were a lot of offerings made to the new datus in way of performances and music. My balintawak instructor and I did a demo as an offering. Then there was a huge feast... it was pretty incredible.


Pete

Pete,

Thank you for the information.

While I respect the PI culture, I have to make a couple of comments.

1) This post was in the Modern Arnis section so while I agree it is good to have the historical comments, I actually meant what is a Datu in Modern Arnis.

2) Would those people in the USA need to get upset when the President of another country is called Mr. President. The title was not used as such until after the USA Presidents used it.

So based upon number 2 as it is acceptable to have someone else use a title, as it is a word, then could we move this thread forward to #1, what is a Datu in Modern Arnis?

Thank you

 

[monkey]

Technicaly speaking,The word was Reserved for the Tribe members only-Hard core-born into the art.There have been a few system,
Like Modern Arnis that take from arts as they need it to "Grow." Karate-jujitsu-ect.
The ranks that were in Kali & others like Tirsa are copy writted & in some cases ---will cause conflick if used as such.Even out rihgt fights.
Note "the example I have stated here!"----
"Karate"---it is widely used but dose not have a copy write or any other
such from useage.But--"American Kempo"--"Kosho" --"Kajukempo"--"Kajakenpo"--"Ishinryu"--These are specificly noted & copy writes too.
Herein the founder Remy wanted Special titles for some that showed alittle more then Masters & set them apart.Hence the title Datu.
The original art to the Datu is off the kali lines & others as well.Modern Arnis was formed around 1970 & recignised 1975 Hence the 1st patch I shown on my demo dvd.This patch started the era were "Jose" tought the Armed Forces & eventualy "Ernesto" took over in 1980.
The Datu was not part of Modern Arnis.The ranks in kali are " yukan" "Lakan" "Lakan Guru Isa" Lakan Guru Dalawa" "Guru Isa" Guru Diliwa" Guru Tatlo" "Guru Apat" Mataas Guru" "Maginoo" "Tuhon" & if they pass the ritual test "Datu" Spiritual Leader or Warrior Chiefton! This was in Honor of the Great Lapu Lapu & the battle with El Cortez! That is the Datu.Not Part of the Modern Arnis!
There are how erer Datus in Escrima & the arts of Kuntao.

 

[PeteNerd]

Pete,

Thank you for the information.

While I respect the PI culture, I have to make a couple of comments.

1) This post was in the Modern Arnis section so while I agree it is good to have the historical comments, I actually meant what is a Datu in Modern Arnis.

2) Would those people in the USA need to get upset when the President of another country is called Mr. President. The title was not used as such until after the USA Presidents used it.

So based upon number 2 as it is acceptable to have someone else use a title, as it is a word, then could we move this thread forward to #1, what is a Datu in Modern Arnis?

Thank you

I have no idea what a Datu is in Modern Arnis. It's probably whatever Remy Presas wanted it to be and beyond that I'm sure it's really hard to quantify. Seems like certain ranks were doled out as he deemed fit.

Pete

 

[PeteNerd]

Pete,

Thank you for the information.

While I respect the PI culture, I have to make a couple of comments.

1) This post was in the Modern Arnis section so while I agree it is good to have the historical comments, I actually meant what is a Datu in Modern Arnis.

2) Would those people in the USA need to get upset when the President of another country is called Mr. President. The title was not used as such until after the USA Presidents used it.

So based upon number 2 as it is acceptable to have someone else use a title, as it is a word, then could we move this thread forward to #1, what is a Datu in Modern Arnis?

Thank you

So given these assertions I guess one could logically conclude that the Datus of modern arnis are the leaders of the different tribes of modern arnis. Then the question is, how many tribes of modern arnis are there?

Pete

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Monkey,

Remy gave out ranks and titles as he deemed fit as the head of Modern Arnis. Whatever rank or title he gave is beyond reproach because he deemed that you were at that level and as the founder or Modern Arnis he had that right. When he gave people the title of Datu, he designated them as a group with Modern Arnis and their Datu title is specific to Modern Arnis and should cause no concern to anyone else other than people practicing Modern Arnis. He also gave out title's such as the Master's of Tapi Tapi, Senior Master, etc. Each issued are specific to what he was doing at that time and what he wanted them to stand for.
Do not question what Remy did as that is not appropriate because he cannot defend himself. Bottom line as the founder of Modern Arnis he had the right to create titles within Modern Arnis as he deemed.

I do not care about your claimed title nor will I say that it is a false title. What causes people problems with your claim is that there is no evidence other than your certificate and no one new who you were until recently.

If you can clean up your sentences and posts then people will treat you better. Of this I have no doubt.

It would also help if you could answer some people's questions when they are posted. However, I do understand the challenges or dial up.

Good luck but drop the tack of trying to discredit the Datu title in Modern Arnis. Whether you, I or anyone else cares (of which I do not) it is there and will remain because Remy deemed it so.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com

 

[monkey]

I stated it befor -Ill state it again--I Dont Dispute the ranks Datus
I am telling the meaning of it.This translate to
the defintion!
Ive been trying to clean up the senteces a bit.Takes time to learn this dial up-thing & try to respond.
Like I said I told the definition if you read it.I dont say they cant have it.I
told were it comes from.I see you people come down on me.
But in the Datu threds-While others talk of such --who has the rite or not-
I am qualified in Kali--I know were Datu came from.Its a Kali term!
I am qualified in Modern Arnis & the question was " What is a Datu?"
If people that answere this honestly & tell exactly what it is & it is confirmed.
Then maybe others should listen & insted of saying were do you come off---Or Dont put down the Datus. Listen to the answere,It is & has been trible.It was not part of Modern Arnis.Remy added it to make it special.
I see that it could be a good thing--It seems to be bad as how the thred What is a Datu? is here!
But -here in lays What a Datu & whats it take.Now go to the Thred --
Master & see 90% that hold--Dont beleave that anyone ever should have it .Yet They have it.Now if they dont beleave in Master ---
I see why you think Im not Autheintic.1--I trained private with the founders. 2--I was certified by the founders ,so if you except Datus by the founders.
The by all means you have to except Master .It shouldnt matter if they came to you seminars or not.
Check the recoerds ---Remy has been in Chico & many times.
Ive been in the class photo 1980 with Remy & Ernesto as Brothers teaching together.I have shown my ranks-they have been recignised
in a national mag & news letters.Hence I am Gaurdian & Master.
This title " To Me--To Me " It- means I look out to see if it is being tought right.How can (any one learn -or progress or be excepted by your
orinigised ways.)I shoulnd have to train under you to be excepted.
I was promoted as many were.Some have money & can promot threw mags-seminars ect.
Some are like me--quiet,not much money --this will not lessen our skills ever.
Just becouse we did pay funds or join yet.How can 1 be exspected to join & suport If they are told --They know nothing--thier ranks are not recignised.Ill say this again & look hard befor you answere.
My ranks have been posted in the Philippino mag Nationaly--They were Recignised with Mary Brunners group & noted in their news letters--
They were again noted on " whats a Datu thred by Dr. Jarome Barbar for being in the mag & more.
There is also proof I am state rep that dose get shown On the web also on "whats a Datu."So here on the Datu thred is yet "another national recignition for state Rep."
Ive been certified By Remy 1981--The rank was posted & many talk of it on the "Datu thred."Now they say you say" you havent see any proof."
Look it is nationaly posted & was noted as authentic on the Datu thred--
so very intencely & generously it has been noted & reciginsed.Please- Stop
trying to demean it.I dont put your ranks & training down-Honor that which "Remy "gave me in" 1981 "& Ernesto in 1987.The Ranks were up dated till 99.I studed other arts for awhile hence the Doce pares rank that show up on my video & the signed photo from Cacoy at the seminar in Calif.
Lets stop this who is what & just learn from each other.
My Thred on Intercepting fist & Chi-- fong Ha --Choy & other thred are getting good posts.I have seen a gold star on one of them.So what you said had no merit & stop it please --we can learn from each other .
Stop saying Im not qualified or were do you get off--or stop putting down--I have not put down.Yet Ive been called a lier --1 has admited to stalking & harrasing from time to time.
Lets just train---Read my threds & see I have a lot to offer & we can share thought & skills from the Prffessor.
Please stop saying Im trying to promote my videos also.I dont sell tapes nor offer prices or other,Yet Ive seen threds On Books & videos out by others.So you must adhear to your rules of the web as well.I dont
want to sell my videos,I dont sell over or threw the web.They are mostly semiars-& or those only & for those who were there,so they have a copy of what they did.
I will not sell my videos so please stop saying Im promoting them--Also
My seminars have been cliped on the video to show I do them.& yet here is another post-National befor I do them-For the past few years thay have been posted & my ranks displayed in the arts.
Its not my responsablity that you have missed many-many many
year after year posts ntional of my ranks-seminars & anthing pertaining to.
once again if you except Datus --if you except masters --then you have to except my ranks..i have never seen or herd of your ranks being published as much as mine.I have National Reg. I am the state Rep.
Hence I am Authentic..So I ask again can we just drop all this now & just learn from each other.Many have enjoyed my Threds & they want more.Ive had 30 years in Modern Arnis-Can you say that?
Lets have fun.Like Remy said "Its a beautiful art-i want everybody to know--you know"

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Monkey,

This last post shows exactly why people have a problem with your posting style. It is very tough to follow what you are saying because you jump around so much! In order to be taken seriously you need to work on this. Members such as Don Roley, Rich Parsons and people you have had a problem with are highly respected here and around the world. Your arguing with them does not help your cause nor make you look better. This thread about the Datu's might have been a good one for you to skip because when you questioned why non-filipino's could have the title then you immediately get other people upset.

I for one do not care about your title's, tape's, etc. What I would like to see however is that you take time and post well rather than in the difficult manner that you have chosen. I do not have a problem with you but it is difficult reading your posts!

Be careful in lumping people together to quickly or you will have more people that will dislike your posts.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com

 

[monkey]

Thank you kindly for that info.I tried to do as you say & other.If you look at the last post --I did use the
enter button just as such as to not group.
but is it seems only effective on short paragraphs.
I cant post 10 diferant -the slow dial up will make it look as if I
refuse to answer their question & by the time it dose show -
I get hit with 10 more questions & called a lier.
Its not just here on the datu but the so called
occult summoning of the great monkey thred ---&
who is tom carnes thred;
seems I never had a fair shake or chance to try.From day 1
the "who is tom carnes" came up & 50 questions.
I tried to answer all-I have a disablity & slow dial up web.
This made me look stupid to them & I had the red put under my name.

Many---yes many cant under stnad why & I tell them --they agree I
never had a fair chance --as well some purposely stalking (of which they stated such) to try do make fun of ---Hence the occult summing of the great monkey with candles & occult type words.
Note that person did state later it was done as a joke but, still others supoted it as a fact.
Now if I did these things to people Id be asked to leave the site & probly posted why asked.
Yet they get praised for the defermation-harrasing & making fun of a disabled army vet.