So what is a DATU of Modern Arnis

[Rich Parsons]

Can those that study Modern Arnis give us a description of:

What a Datu is?

What are the qualifications if any?



(* I know the list of six, and if they are referenced or care to reply so much the better. *)

 

[HKphooey]

Datu means chieftain or leader. In arnis that translation can be interpruted as a oraganization head. Not sure if I have ever seen any qualifications for the title other than a group of followers that have nominated or elected that individual. It is also used to designate royalty.

I look forward to any more info on this subject.

 

[The Game]

Found this http://martialpedia.com/

Datu
From MartialTalk Online Martial Arts Encyclopedia Project
Contents
[hide]

* 1 Datu in Filipino Martial Arts
* 2 Datu, What does it mean?
* 3 Who are the Datus in Modern Arnis?
* 4 Datus in Modern Arnis
* 5 Datu vs Rank
* 6 Sources

[edit]
Datu in Filipino Martial Arts

The title "Datu" has been bestowed upon 6 practitioners of the martial art known as Modern Arnis. Remy Presas, the founder of the system, decided to use the title as a "leadership" signifier, separate from rank. It has been the source of some controversy in the Filipino based systems.

[edit]
Datu, What does it mean?

Chieftain, Leader, or Warlord are the ways that it has been decribed to me in the Filipino culture. I have talked to several Masters & Grandmasters of Filipino heritage. It has also been referred to as a Spiritual Leader. Any one you chose, it has a significant meaning in their culture. - Datu Tim Hartman
[edit]
Who are the Datus in Modern Arnis?

Shishir Inocalla, Kelly Worden, Ric Jornales, David Hoffman, Dieter Knuettel, Tim Hartman
[edit]
Datus in Modern Arnis

As Remy decribed to me on several occasions, Datu is a leadership title in the original IMAF. One of the main reasons that Remy bestowed the title on me was the fact that I chose to lead by example. When it came time to get promoted I would insist on testing in front of everyone. I was not afraid of being seen by our community. I thought, and still do think, that too much rank was given out for political reasons and not for technical ones. In 1999 Remy offered my the title. I turned it down because, at that time, I didn't feel that I was ready for it. The following year I was offered it again and accepted it. Talking to many of the East Coast Modern Arnis people, they feel that only one title supercedes Datu and that was Grandmaster. - Datu Tim Hartman
[edit]
Datu vs Rank

The title is separate from rank. When I was first offered it, I was only a fifth. Remy thought that leadership ability had nothing to do with what they wear on their waist. This is why I was put in charge of the Can-Am charpter of the IMAF while he was alive. At the time, there were several active memebers who out ranked me but he still chose to put me in charge of that and several other projects of his. The same went for Punong-Guro; rank was separate from that also. It means teacher of teachers. I was also the only one in the IMAF that I know of that Remy bestowed that title on. - Datu Tim Hartman


[edit]
Sources

Original Wiki Entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datu
MartialTalk.com: http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=497

 

[Dan Anderson]

Found this http://martialpedia.com/

I was also the only one in the IMAF that I know of that Remy bestowed that title on. - Datu Tim Hartman


[edit]
Sources

Original Wiki Entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datu
MartialTalk.com: http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=497

Actually David Hoffman is a member of IMAF and he is also a datu.

The only problem with the "What is a datu?" question is that Prof. Presas never broadly explained what it meant in the framework of Modern Arnis. He told the recipients of the title what he told them but never broadly disseminated the news. This is the same of the Master of Tapi-Tapi title and others.

By the way, this has been worked over so thoroughly over the years since Remy's death that this is very old news, the same as the promotion issue that has been the buzz of another FMA forum as of late.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[Rich Parsons]

Actually David Hoffman is a member of IMAF and he is also a datu.

The only problem with the "What is a datu?" question is that Prof. Presas never broadly explained what it meant in the framework of Modern Arnis. He told the recipients of the title what he told them but never broadly disseminated the news. This is the same of the Master of Tapi-Tapi title and others.

By the way, this has been worked over so thoroughly over the years since Remy's death that this is very old news, the same as the promotion issue that has been the buzz of another FMA forum as of late.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

Dan,

Please give me some rope here, I do have an agenda for topics to discuss and clarify.

Thank you

Also Could you send me a PM on this other forum you mention?

 

[monkey]

If Datu means Chiefton or spiritual leader.I ask my self 1 small question.What Tribe are the a chiefton of?I wounder how these tribes take it.That some one who has not stepped in the philippines as a philippino became Cheifton of their tribe.The people live & breath the art.How is it an Amrican can over rank those born to it.I know each wepon on my Ethagowa shield is made by that founder or named after.Now these Datus over rank as Chiefton.I have to corollate this to 1 British deu to meeting some one of native race is now Chief of the Indian tribe like Apatchee.Why would this be.

 

[Edmund BlackAdder]

Does anyone else understand what the Monkey just said? I'm left "woundering" too. But, I will take some heavy LDS and see if I can figure this out.

According to numerous sources, the title of "Datu" means just what was stated in the MTE entry. It's use as a martial arts title has known its share of controversy. There are a few other non Modern Arnis martial arts Datus out there, Halford Jones being one of them.

The late GM Presas selected this title, as a way of giving tribute to his homeland, and keeping the Filipino flavor in his art, over the usual JMA flavorings used and overly misused by others. As the long time expert here, you would of course be aware of that.

It is a Filipino title, given to his chosen leaders of his art. Several reports indicate that there were to have been 10 Datus, who would form a sort of "Think Tank" to help take the art to the next level by blending their own innovations and stylings back into it.

How can an American overrank someone born into it? Easily. By surpassing them in skill, ambition and leadership.

The rest of your ramblings I have no idea on what you could possibly mean. Purhaps you can confabrconlate use with more perstigeuos democrates of illicit verbiage, postmorbin?

 

[arnisador]

I will take some heavy LDS

I didn't even know you were Mormon.

I had the impression that the Professor thought of this as a historical title in the Phil., which is now a republic, and so I doubt he would have shared monkey's concerns about offending current legitimate title-holders. I have no doubt that the title is still used by some, but like titles on nobility in France or Germany, it's now just a personal style. I might add that Modern Arnis is not the only art to use the title; e.g., Datu Halford Jones, mentioned here.

 

[monkey]

The question is what is a datu?i did not say no one isnt or they asre not legit.I asked if if ment Chiefton or spiritual leader-what tribe ar the the leader of.You realy need tolern to read befor you try to mis quote me & try to make me look bad.Read the thred title What is a datu.I just asked a question i did not accuse.You are toltasly out of context on that.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

Another needless multiplication of rank (or not rank...leadership position?) IMO. It confuses me, but thats not so difficult to do.

 

[Edmund BlackAdder]

The question is what is a datu?i did not say no one isnt or they asre not legit.I asked if if ment Chiefton or spiritual leader-what tribe ar the the leader of.You realy need tolern to read befor you try to mis quote me & try to make me look bad.Read the thred title What is a datu.I just asked a question i did not accuse.You are toltasly out of context on that.

Yes, the question is "What is a Datu".
A question which I answered.

You asked "What Tribe are they the Chieftain of?", which I admit to missing, an error I can be excused of considering your atrocious grammar.
Answer: The Tribe of Modern Arnis Practitioners, within the then-IMAF. With the demise of the IMAF (now 2 separate factions), I would believe that each Datu is head (or "Chief") of their own organizations, or seen as independent leaders within the art as a whole.

As to "My" learning to read, my reading abilities are quite good, as are my writing abilities. I spend quite a bit of my day reading forums, the NY Times, various classics by well known authors such as Shakespeare, Ziglar and Flint.

Now, as to your own reading and writing skills.
You Sir, could take the time to learn to "Write" clearer, maybe use proper punctuation, indentation and spacing, as well as proper spelling and grammar. There are free spell checkers that will work with most web browsers, as well as most email programs, that are as simple as "right click - spellcheck".
If you would write better, then you wouldn't get anywhere near as much grief as you do. There are at least 20 spelling, spacing and grammatical errors in what you wrote above. I do not have to try to make you look bad. You make yourself look bad, like an uneducated buffoon. You obviously have experience, and knowledge, two items that are of great value here. Unfortunately you lack the ability to communicate in this medium. I strongly encourage you to seek ways to improve your written communication skills, so that we can avoid further misunderstandings. There are free programs available in most locations within the United States that will provide you with that training. I suggest contacting your local libraries and community centers for more information.

 

[monkey]

I speak many langues in part this you know aready.It was gone over in who is tom carnes & post is locked.you know as a fact I speak good english & writting skill ok only.Yet you tend to seek out & realy not read.In not the only 1 on this site that makes typo errors.Yet you Black Adder are content to seek out me & try to high lihgt faults.Yet on the posts of the jab & the posts of the front snap many enjoyed my wriiteng 7 thoughts.Only you came in & tried to demean on those pages.I dont seek out posts you do & say who is Black adder.who certified him tho be the leading authority on what faults people can or cant have,Is this how you do martial arts.Look for fault in their spelling due to their nationality.Not good.

 

[Edmund BlackAdder]

Tom,
I have not mentioned your "nationality". From what I've heard however, you are an American male caucasian, living in California, and English is your native language. While it is true, yes, Americans do talk "funny" and not the Queens English, this site is populated with hundreds of Americans, yet you are the only one incapable of using proper spelling, grammer, punctuation, capitalization and spacing. I gave my advice. I answered the questions. You however continue to post incomprehesible mazes of wordage. I frazzle my postits and wrancle my cumberbung tinking boot you eh.

 

[Edmund BlackAdder]

Now you posted the above.
Properly formatted, it should have looked like this. Of course, I took the liberty of correcting your spelling, grammer, punctuation and often sentence structure:

I speak many languges; in part this you know aready. It was gone over in who is tom carnes & the post is locked. You know as a fact I speak good english & my writing skill is ok only. Yet you tend to seek out & really not read. I'm not the only 1 on this site that makes typing errors. Yet you, Black Adder are content to seek me out & try to high light my faults. Yet on the posts of the jab & the posts of the front snap many enjoyed my writing 7 thoughts. Only you came in & tried to demean on those pages. I dont seek out posts you do & say who is Blackadder. Who certified him to be the leading authority on what faults people can or cant have. Is this how you do martial arts? Look for fault in their spelling due to their nationality. Not good.

It's nice that you speak many languages. It is a shame that you cannot write in your primary one.
It is hard to read when what one is trying to read is poorly writen.
I am not seeking you out, it is your atrocious writing that is catching my eye.
It is hard to seek out my posts and demean me, as I am perfect, near godhood in fact.
A proper college education and attention to detail is what certified me.
I don't care about your nationality, faith, gender, art, style, rank, title, age, etc. I do care about the arts.

 

[Xue Sheng]

You know as a fact I speak good english & my writing skill is ok only.

Edmund, I admit I am a funny talking American but wouldn't that be

"You know for a fact I speak english well & my writing skill is just ok."

 

[Rich Parsons]

If Datu means Chiefton or spiritual leader.I ask my self 1 small question.What Tribe are the a chiefton of?I wounder how these tribes take it.That some one who has not stepped in the philippines as a philippino became Cheifton of their tribe.The people live & breath the art.How is it an Amrican can over rank those born to it.I know each wepon on my Ethagowa shield is made by that founder or named after.Now these Datus over rank as Chiefton.I have to corollate this to 1 British deu to meeting some one of native race is now Chief of the Indian tribe like Apatchee.Why would this be.

Tom,

Where do you get off with these comments?

You come here and make claims that you are the ONE AND ONLY GUARDIAN and WHO ARE THESE OTHERS? And other titles and claims.

Then you get all bent over a simple question and then step back and blame others for your attititude. You claim to speak English well and only type it so so, how about reading it? The reason I ask is that you are acting like a TROLL with your actions. Disruptive posts - attacking others when there is no attack on you.


So if every thread must be about you, then how come it is ok for you to have a title and rank and others are not?

 

[monkey]

I never question the ranks of the Datus.Only the definiton.Even Hong Kong Phoo ee on this post stated it mean chiefton or spiritual leader.How is it the terminology or definition when stated by be is also stated by others but I get dummed on.Not 1 person said pro or con to the definition that HKF did.I hold a rank as guardian.This dose not (to me mean I am the flame keeper as some say.To me -read this & see if you see it as my point & why i have it>To me it means the same as the 4 Guardians of Karate & at the time Funakosho was 1.To me the guardian means I protect the art & make sure Its precieved or tought right.Like I state in the Who is Tom Carnes thred -The Presas family was talked to me many hours on the phone & have video of me & copies of my ranks.Remy jr. Hooked up with Kelly Warden As he has money & can promote seminars.I am just me.No big school.Just privote out of the house like a lot of my teacher did,Bruce Lee-James Lee-Conyete-Telisporo-Subing Subing- to name a few.I had the best of the best teachers.Jose Presas for example.So Both Remy & ernesto gave me the rank.How is it you cant except it & just lern what I have of offer.I could take a stand & declair the De tranka ect. is far from the combat.I dont & Remy jr. understands why.I dont need to explain to you what transpired between us or Remy or Ernesto.I offer the art.Lern from It & have fun.Give it a try.My ranks are authentic-as well my time in privotes.Like you said Remy took you to side & tought you.,Your not the 1st he did this with.Except he did it with me & have fun.

 

[Dan Anderson]

Answer: The Tribe of Modern Arnis Practitioners, within the then-IMAF. With the demise of the IMAF (now 2 separate factions), I would believe that each Datu is head (or "Chief") of their own organizations, or seen as independent leaders within the art as a whole.

That's as good as explanation as any.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[Dan Anderson]

Tom,

You come here and make claims that you are the ONE AND ONLY GUARDIAN...

Hi Tom,

I am way out of the loop on this. What is this Guardian title and when was it awarded? This is a query and not an attack. I just don't know.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[monkey]

Thanks for the comp. I will always be open to play.As Proffersor or Grandmaster said.(It is a beautiful art-It is easy & fun-I want to share with all to know-You know!) That statement should say a bit on its own.It is fun & share with all.