So Proud

[Xequat]

Hey, great. Thanks for those sites, Paul. That's what I was hoping for. I'm curious about the second one, though...was it published in something? I only ask because it seems like opinion and there are no sources listed, plus there are way too many misspelled words for it to have been published. But it does make sense. I really liked the nih one, though. I guess that works for all kinds of unconsciousness, pressure point or not.

 

[Marginal]

If you have any evidence, whether it's MRI's or testimonies then please share them, but it seems more and more from your lack of producing evidence that there is none. I don't care how hard it is for you to bring evidence; it's up to you to find it since you're the one who's accusing people of being hacks. So prove it. If you can, then that's great and we'll all learn something. If not, then you lose. Either way, I don't care.

Boxers tend to stay away from KO situations for at least a month after suffering a KO to minimize lasting brain injury. There are studies on the subject at www.pubmed.com if you care to do some digging.

 

[Cruentus]

Hey, great. Thanks for those sites, Paul. That's what I was hoping for. I'm curious about the second one, though...was it published in something? I only ask because it seems like opinion and there are no sources listed, plus there are way too many misspelled words for it to have been published. But it does make sense. I really liked the nih one, though. I guess that works for all kinds of unconsciousness, pressure point or not.

No problem, glad I could help.

The 2nd link is a guy who is certified in TCM, and is a lecturer at the London College of Chinese Medicine; that was an article that was in "Combat Magazine." I don't personally know how TCM certifications work, but I assume its legit. I don't know what's up with the spelling errors either - some might be just the European way of spelling certian words, but I am not sure.

I am not a pressure point expert, but I will say that it is pretty well known in the medical community that repeated knockouts can cause long term damage. So can repeated blows to the head, for that matter. I did some boxing, kickboxing, and MMA in my teens and late teens. As I got a little older I decided I wanted to save my brain cells, so I stopped competing.

I know 2 people close to me who have long term neurological damage in their older age from being repeatedly knocked out in competition fighting. You couldn't tell them when they were younger (I am sure) that their activities would have any long term effects.

I am sure there is more on this stuff in medical journals, and I know that years ago I remember seeing some credable sources on this; but I am not a medical professional either, so I am not sure where you would find this stuff online.

On that note, my personal opinion is that being knocked out is a "casualty of war" in full contact fighting, so to speak. However, people should know the risks before going into something. It would be unethical to teach and promote full contact fighting without expressing the risks involved. I think it would be especially unethical to present the idea that "I'm gonna wack ya in the neck and knock you out, but don't worry, there will be no side effects if I revive you," when it is well known in the medical community that this is not nessicarily true. I think that if your knocked out once, the probability is pretty low that your going to see long term damage. However, if your being knocked out seminar after seminar or worse class after class, you greatly increase the chances of being damaged long term.

I am not criticizing anyone here or anyones instructor, btw; this is just how I feel about this particular issue...

Paul

 

[RRouuselot]

1) LOL Well, stupid text. I can't tell if you're serious or trying to lighten things up for sure, but I'll go with option B. Thanks for that.

4) You proved that who's a hack? Just refer me to some of these threads and I'll read them. I'll never find them on here because all of the search words I'd use would give me so many responses that I'd never get through them all and I don't have time for that.

1) Nice way to dodge the question......so care to explain why you chose not to follow Dillman's way of doing things? I mean ppko is one of Dillman's students so it would seem logical.....

4) All you have to do is look for the threads on pp, kyusho etc that have been locked down. You will see where I have asked ppko, Rob Broad, and several others to explain their posts concerning pp, TCM, and kyusho......they couldn't.

 

[RRouuselot]

I just wanted to tell everyone how proud of my students that I am (even without this story I am still very proud with them), both of my students got there first taste of the light touch Knock-out. Tony (Xequat whom has been with me for a little while now), and Andrew (he is not on this board but is one of my students) got to knock each other out, as it makes me feel great as an instructor (this is my first school so I am sure this won't be as big of a deal after a while or maybe it will), and it makes me very happy for my students now they know they can do it the sky is the limit.

Out of 2 very long sentences KOing someone is mentioned 3 times in the original post. If nobody Koed anybody this thread wouldn't have started.

BTW, if you think this thread has gone way off topic, put me on your ignore list and carry on with whatever you want. It's pretty easy to do.

 

[Cruentus]

Boxers tend to stay away from KO situations for at least a month after suffering a KO to minimize lasting brain injury. There are studies on the subject at www.pubmed.com if you care to do some digging.

Good site Marginal. Another one is: http://www.neurology.org/

Most of the really good articles that covers LOS (Loss of Consciousness) and Concussion you have to pay for, which I am not going to do just to prove a point that I know is correct. A lot of the free content has really good info on the common boxing disorder CTE, but it is hard to find info that seperates LOS with repeated blows to the head. I know that some wisenhymer (who is looking for any excuss for it to be O.K. to repeatedly knock out themselves and their buddies) will say that CTE is from repeated blows to the head, and not the neck or the "pressure point," so its not the same, yada yada...which is why I won't even bother linking the few I found.

If someone finds a really good free article on the long term effects of LOS specifically (seperating it from head blows), then I would be a happy man...

Paul

 

[RRouuselot]

3) OK, that's just laughable. You made a very insulting accusation and now you want me to prove it? Hmm, why not accuse me of a crime and then have me round up evidence and ask myself questions on the stand? Wow. I mean, maybe you are right, but the burden's on you to prove it.

So you mean to say that before Tulisan's posting the URLs about being KOed you had no idea there was any damage involved?
Are you saying his post is the very first time you heard anything about brain damage being related to head trauma, or being KOed?
Some how I don't think so.......

 

[RRouuselot]

Boxers tend to stay away from KO situations for at least a month after suffering a KO to minimize lasting brain injury. There are studies on the subject at www.pubmed.com if you care to do some digging.

Good find. Interesting stuff too.

 

[ppko]

I know that DKI does, and has done tests on the effects on KOing people (University of Virginia, some tests in Canada, and at least one in INdianapolis), with me not being a part of these tests I do not know from first hand experience what was concluded, but from the people that were KOd and there experience that is all I know. I will be a part of the next one that my instructor does, from what I have been told thus far they have not been able to find any adverse effects. About George in some of his earlier KOs there was lots of people there to catch the person, this is to lower the chance of injury, but now for the most part we know where they will fall so most people only use 1 or 2 catchers. Mr. Rousselet at this point you are just trying to bait us out, no we do not know more than Mr. Dillman, arts grow (well at least ours has) people improve, the last time that I know that you have had any contact with Mr. Dillman was in 1984 (thats 20 yrs ago) let it go.

 

[ppko]

Just one more thing we do not do KOs on a regular basis, I think that Tony has been KOd Three times, and TKOd once, this was Andrews first time and this was just to show that they could do it.

 

[ppko]

A question for you Rob, you do Bogu Kumite, right if you go full contact than you risk giving your students brain damage (assuming that you do allow stikes to the head of course) am I right?

 

[MJS]

Guys....please keep the discussion focused on the topic. If you're not interested in hearing someone, use the ignore feature.

Mike

 

[RRouuselot]

.........Mr. Rousselet at this point you are just trying to bait us out, no we do not know more than Mr. Dillman, arts grow (well at least ours has) people improve, the last time that I know that you have had any contact with Mr. Dillman was in 1984 (thats 20 yrs ago) let it go.

No that is not correct. i am not trying to 'bait" you...
Also, I and several of my students & friends have also had contact with him in the US as well as some other countries.....as early as 1998

 

[RRouuselot]

A question for you Rob, you do Bogu Kumite, right if you go full contact than you risk giving your students brain damage (assuming that you do allow stikes to the head of course) am I right?

My students are well aware of the risks involved....as am I.....

As always you seem to be totally missing my point and try and turn my question around.
My point is DKI people always claim they are using "pressure points" when doing a "neck whack"..(which is incorrect...they are not)...I have asked you on numerous occasions to tell me exactly which point you are using since there are several in that area.....you have never even come close to giving me an answer. This also is in relation to the DKI people also claim they are correcting the point that was struck when doing their "revival show".

 

[KenpoTess]

MOD NOTE

Thread locked pending Admin Review.. it no longer has any bearing on the Topic.

~Tess
-MT S. Mod-

 

[Seig]

MOD NOTE

Thread locked pending Admin Review.. it no longer has any bearing on the Topic.

~Tess
-MT S. Mod-

Tess was absolutely correct to lock this thread. Cool down. I have now read the entire thread. If the situation does not go back to a POLITE and Respectful nature, there will be two suspensions and an official warning sent out, by me, not a SuperMod.
I am now unlocking this thread, but it is being carefully watched and will be locked down again if necessary.
Seig
MT OPS ADMIN

 

[RRouuselot]

ppko & xequat I have posted something I want you to tak a look at and give your honest opinion

http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=324438#post324438

( I posted it here so in a new thread so people will stop whining about a thread drift)

 

[D.Cobb]

I did teach him that first

So, how come he needed someone else to do it for him?

--Dave

 

[ppko]

He didn't I was there as a guide and nothing more. But to get more to the subject on hand I would really like to get some different success stories in this thread.

 

[ppko]

Tess was absolutely correct to lock this thread. Cool down. I have now read the entire thread. If the situation does not go back to a POLITE and Respectful nature, there will be two suspensions and an official warning sent out, by me, not a SuperMod.
I am now unlocking this thread, but it is being carefully watched and will be locked down again if necessary.
Seig
MT OPS ADMIN

Thank you sir, maybe we can get this thread back on track.