and I'm glad I went....if you've been following me you know that I've been talking about getting back into the arts after a few years layoff, also to get back in shape. Regardless I went strictly to observe so I wouldn't fall into the mcdojo environment again. Glad I did...I went right when the kids class ended and there was an hour that I could talk with the grandmaster. Idk what fraud busting policies MT has so I won't say much other than I was told the multiple arts he has black belts and master ranks in...about 10 or more? He was an older gent so who knows. He told me they practiced qigong and he could knock over ten people, etc. What really got me was the story he told me about having to mop his masters dojo for a month everyday before he would consider training him. (I've heard that before in a book I think). Needless to say I gave him the benefit of the doubt and stuck around for an hour and a half to watch about 8 students and two of his black belts go through some of the most unstructured and lax environment I've seen. I mean I know not every school should be like boot camp but this was basically do what you wish. I'm trying to be unbiased here and maybe it was because it was the first class back after new year. Anyways long story short and not to give too much away, but it's not for me! So the fates being by total accident I found a Jorge Gurgel bjj gym near me and reached to instructor and he's offering me a free class to try it out. Muay Thai, western boxing, bjj. Hopefully I can find my niche. (If my post violates fraud busting polices I apologize in advance!)
So my journey took me to the hapkido school last night...
- Thread starter Maint
- Start date
I think you're okay on the fraudbusting, since you haven't named any names.
If you're looking for the antithesis of a McDojo, a Jorge Gurgel affiliate school should work well for you. Jorge doesn't do McDojo.
If you're looking for the antithesis of a McDojo, a Jorge Gurgel affiliate school should work well for you. Jorge doesn't do McDojo.
I don't know whom you are speaking of (and it's best if we don't discuss that here) but although I would consider it a warning sign if someone told me that they were a master in numerous styles, one never knows as you said. I would tend to doubt a very young person who made such claims than an older person, simply on the basis of the math required - it generally takes many decades to reach master status in any legitimate martial arts style, so a 23 year old 'grand master' who claims master status in eleventy-dozen styles is going to get an arched eyebrow from me.
I don't think that tells me one thing or another. Anyone can talk about what they can do, seeing is believing in some cases. However, even that has risks - sometimes it takes a certain level of training just to know when a person is demonstrating solid techniques or using highly cooperative students to inflate his or her abilities.
If it's not for you, it's not for you. No issues there. And as you said, it's hard to say what the structure of the class was intended to be. Anyone who drops by our dojo may find us spending the entire class practicing one kick. Or doing self-defense exercises. Or working on kata. Or doing weapons. Or doing light sparring. Or any combination of the above. It just depends on the night. We are generally structured in the sense that we are doing something more-or-less as one group and not just wandering around doing whatever we feel like doing, but you never know. The higher-ranked black belts (not me, I'm just a ni-dan) sometimes choose to participate in class, other times they help instruct, or they take newbies aside and work on beginner stuff, or they work on whatever they feel they want to work on - they have earned that right. So to an outside observer, it may look chaotic or they may get a false impression of what it is we do, if they just observe one session.
People can legitimately study a lot of different styles in their life, so I think whether that makes them credible or not really depends. If someone who's 40 said, for example, "I have a 4th dan in HKD, a 3rd dan in TKD, a 2nd dan in Judo, a 1st dan in Aikido, and a blue belt in BJJ", that could be true. But if they're 40 and they claim to have 5 9th-degree black belts, they're totally full of it.
I'm familiar with a teacher who tells a story about how Back In Korea as a kid he had to clean the dojang before the teacher would consider taking him on, but that guy admits it's because he was a stuck-up rich kid and the teacher thought he had a bad attitude when he tried to sign up.
Edit: Anyway, that's not as bad as one school I saw that on their website claimed their founder started studying martial arts because, when he was a kid in Korea, gangsters killed his dad, so he learned martial arts in a secret mountain monastery where he trained in long-lost Korean arts so he could avenge his father's death.
)
The thing that really raises my eyebrows is that he claims he can knock over 10 people with qigong. That's a load of ****.
I'm familiar with a teacher who tells a story about how Back In Korea as a kid he had to clean the dojang before the teacher would consider taking him on, but that guy admits it's because he was a stuck-up rich kid and the teacher thought he had a bad attitude when he tried to sign up.
Edit: Anyway, that's not as bad as one school I saw that on their website claimed their founder started studying martial arts because, when he was a kid in Korea, gangsters killed his dad, so he learned martial arts in a secret mountain monastery where he trained in long-lost Korean arts so he could avenge his father's death.
)The thing that really raises my eyebrows is that he claims he can knock over 10 people with qigong. That's a load of ****.
Agreed. There are certainly plenty of people here with Dan ranks in multiple styles.
High Dan rank in one and low Dan rank in a bunch of others. Okay, that's doable.
High Dan rank in a couple, and familiarity with a bunch of others. Okay, that's doable.
High Dan rank in a bunch? Those are honorary, bogus, self-promoted, traded or just plain BS.
Their claimed ranks do seem a little inflated...
- Thread Starter
- #8
This gent would qualify for senior citizen status...not that their is anything wrong with that. As for his qigong claims, he was saying he could pick a board/brick out of a stack and using energy break it without the others. (I thought BLOODSPORT) lol. With my past two years worth of training in Chuck Norris style, I was able to see the basic similarities of it being a Korean style. I might've just went on a bad night, but this gentleman had more awards on his wall than my kids have video games. Obscure things I'd never heard of, Ph.D. In martial arts...etc. He told me he doesn't train for sport he trains to live. Then he proceeded to tell me how bjj etc was fallible because it's a sport and not a defensive art. I used to think that, but after my experience last night, I'm realizing that while I'm training to do a round house, there's people with no training who can take that roundhouse and make me eat it. I'm not putting down traditional martial arts at all. I'm just looking for something to get me in shape and if my family is in danger and my gun is at home then I want the edge! That's what I feel is for me.
Think what you want, I've seen it done.
I have not heard of a Ph.D. in Martial Arts, although my sensei has a Master's, a Ph.D., and a commercial pilot's license (the MA and PhD are not in 'martial arts', however).
You're probably going to get a lot of argument about the above statements. Many people do not feel the grappling arts are better than the striking arts for self-defense, and many feel they are. There are certainly pros and cons to both. Bottom line, we're all friends here and we respect each other and our various choices. Make your choices and enjoy them; but you might want to use some caution when you make statements about what can and cannot be used to 'get in shape' and 'defend your family'. If you believe that, fine. If you state it, you're asking for an argument.
PS - and if your bottom-line goal is to 'defend your family', buy a gun and learn how to use it.
- Thread Starter
- #11
I'm way ahead of you in the gun department. I've cc for years and I'm not one of those..."buy a gun and get my license and a fancy holster and never practice" people either lol. I did not mean to start the whole tradition vs mma argument...just my experience and opinion. Who know, I may go to the JG SAS school and be like "what the heck is this crap?" Lol. Let me kind of rephrase what I meant in my last post....I'm middle aged, overweight, diabetic, winded climbing stairs, and on bp meds which I've stated before. Any type of martial art right now would do me good. In my area though, you've got very few choices unless you want to make an hour+ drive. Soooo it's my old school, the hkd place or the JG school. I know what the first two will consist of but not the bjj place (yet). Heck I may end up doing Taebo! LOL. Like you said, we are all friends here and this is just the ramblings of a crazy middle aged dude.
Spinedoc
Brown Belt
I was personally awarded a 10th Dan in Ameri-Dote by Master Ken...
I therefore win....
I therefore win....
lklawson
Grandmaster
There are a few Universities which give degrees in Martial Arts, ims. I also know of a few martial arts which now, or in the past, would give gradings of "Professor." Heck, it used to be common in 19th Century boxing.
Pish posh. Tez and I need to get back to our argument about why her nations sword laws suck. :rofl:
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Seems like you checked out the school. You saw several general red flags (lots of high ranks, lots of pretty diplomas and awards, extravagant claims of ability, a fanciful start of his training story...) and some personal red flags and decided it wasn't for you. That's exactly what we encourage and like to see people doing. Hope the BJJ program works better for you -- and if not, keep looking! If you keep trying, you'll almost certainly find something that you do like.
lklawson
Grandmaster
There may even be a few back-yard/garage dojos in his area but those can be a bit challenging to find. Word of mouth mostly, or hit-n-miss internet "advertising."
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
I've heard of those; but I had not heard of a Ph.D. in martial arts, just a bachelor's degree.
lklawson
Grandmaster
I know next to nothing about the programs and degrees offered, my information being quite superficial and limited to reading a few degree-track descriptions some time back.
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
In it's own crazy way both those guys are kind of awesome. I mean go big or go home, they certainly went big.
Well, there's THIS place...
I was particularly impressed by the list of requirements...
lklawson
Grandmaster
I bought a "Hooked on Psionics" tape once. Boy was I disappointing when all that happened is I learned how to sound out mind reading.
Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
