So, did anyone actually watch the 20/20 show on firearms?

[Bill Mattocks]

It is my opinion that many people who choose to go about armed do not know the basics about self-defense.

Their range time is limited to the training they had to receive (if they had to receive any) as part of the CCW licensing process. Many do not continue to train with their weapons beyond that.

Very often, they do not know how to handle basic weapon malfunctions, such as clearing stovepipe jams or failures to feed.

Some don't even know how to change magazines, or whether or not the slide locks back on the last round of their particular pistol.

Many do not know when they are authorized to use deadly force in self-defense, and many more do not recognize when the right to use deadly force in self-defense has ended.

I've posted news stories about situations like the man who was pickpocketed and opened fire on his attackers as they were running away. Some here have suggested that if you're threatened by a gang of thugs, you can run into your house, retrieve your firearm, and then come out and re-engage them and still call it self-defense.

I am comforted by the fact that the overwhelming majority of CCW holders have an extremely low arrest percentage - most are law-abiding citizens. They are far less likely than the general public to be arrested for violent crimes.

I support the right of law-abiding citizens to carry concealed weapons. It makes me nervous that so many of them are apparently dumb as stumps and don't know when they can legally use them, when they cannot, or even how to properly aim and fire the weapon they carry.

 

[sgtmac_46]

It is my opinion that many people who choose to go about armed do not know the basics about self-defense.

Their range time is limited to the training they had to receive (if they had to receive any) as part of the CCW licensing process. Many do not continue to train with their weapons beyond that.

Very often, they do not know how to handle basic weapon malfunctions, such as clearing stovepipe jams or failures to feed.

Some don't even know how to change magazines, or whether or not the slide locks back on the last round of their particular pistol.

Many do not know when they are authorized to use deadly force in self-defense, and many more do not recognize when the right to use deadly force in self-defense has ended.

I've posted news stories about situations like the man who was pickpocketed and opened fire on his attackers as they were running away. Some here have suggested that if you're threatened by a gang of thugs, you can run into your house, retrieve your firearm, and then come out and re-engage them and still call it self-defense.

I am comforted by the fact that the overwhelming majority of CCW holders have an extremely low arrest percentage - most are law-abiding citizens. They are far less likely than the general public to be arrested for violent crimes.

I support the right of law-abiding citizens to carry concealed weapons. It makes me nervous that so many of them are apparently dumb as stumps and don't know when they can legally use them, when they cannot, or even how to properly aim and fire the weapon they carry.

I'm more concerned that we give a 16 year old a driver's license.......i've never been accidentally shot by a dumb citizen with a CCW, but I did have a teenager nearly run me over on the way home from work this morning.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I'm more concerned that we give a 16 year old a driver's license.

I'll go along with that. They tend to be menaces. I think 21 would be a good age for a driver's license. I also support making driving while talking on the phone a felony, with mandatory sentencing.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I'll go along with that. They tend to be menaces. I think 21 would be a good age for a driver's license. I also support making driving while talking on the phone a felony, with mandatory sentencing.

True, that. Cell phones and cars a far bigger menace to public safety than even the dumbest law abiding gun owners.

Of course, ultimately in a free society we have to accept the lowest common denominator. It's the trade-off for liberty.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

True, that. Cell phones and cars a far bigger menace to public safety than even the dumbest law abiding gun owners.

Of course, ultimately in a free society we have to accept the lowest common denominator. It's the trade-off for liberty.

I agree with that as well. It's why I still support the right of law-abiding citizens to carry concealed, even though I think most of them are too dumb to walk and chew gum at the same time. Our rights apply to everybody.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I agree with that as well. It's why I still support the right of law-abiding citizens to carry concealed, even though I think most of them are too dumb to walk and chew gum at the same time. Our rights apply to everybody.

Absolutely....in a free society we have to judge folks by what they do, not what they might do.......otherwise we leave it up to bureaucrats who are even DUMBER than the citizens themselves to try and 'fool-proof' society.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Absolutely....in a free society we have to judge folks by what they do, not what they might do.......otherwise we leave it up to bureaucrats who are even DUMBER than the citizens themselves to try and 'fool-proof' society.

I would be in favor of mandatory firearms training in public schools, starting at grade 4. To include the full course of when a person may and may not used deadly force in self-defense. No, not talking about arming 4th graders, just teaching them, like we used to teach them 'civics' classes that explained how our political system works (we don't teach that anymore either, based on the number of people who don't know what a plebiscite or the electoral collage are).

One of the schools I attended had a (long abandoned) .22 caliber rifle range in the basement.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I would be in favor of mandatory firearms training in public schools, starting at grade 4. To include the full course of when a person may and may not used deadly force in self-defense. No, not talking about arming 4th graders, just teaching them, like we used to teach them 'civics' classes that explained how our political system works (we don't teach that anymore either, based on the number of people who don't know what a plebiscite or the electoral collage are).

One of the schools I attended had a (long abandoned) .22 caliber rifle range in the basement.

The NRA still runs it's very successful 'Eddie Eagle' program.

Even in my day we still had (probably the last) firearms/hunters education program as part of our PE credit, though it involved BB guns......same principle of operation and safety.

It's a shame that our modern schools seem more interested in producing in-offensive worker drones than producing fully functional intelligent and independent adults.....but intelligence and independence are contrary to the interests of modern government.

 

[Makalakumu]

There was another segment where a young black kid was interviewing a bunch of people from his town, which was overwhelmed with crime and gang members. They showed how gang members could easily get guns and how they could get whatever they wanted. Then interviewed a bunch of kids who had accidentally shot another friend. The segment ended where the boy asked President Obama to do something about the gun menace in his neighborhood and in neighborhoods across the country.

 

[Makalakumu]

After watching the show, I think they had one valid point. If you buy a gun, you need to have training in how to use it. All of the so-called experiments they performed would have been different if the defender had trained properly with the weapon in question. Even against a firearm instructor, there would have been more center of mass shots taken from cover.

That said, the entire piece, THE ENTIRE PIECE was nothing but a political infomercial. It was designed to guns are useless in self defense situations, that they were a public danger, and they needed to be controlled.

It's not hard to imagine a conspiracy against guns in this country. Especially when our national wealth is being stolen by huge financial interests. People are getting very angry about a lot of things...as much as I sympathize, I don't think we need to go there. It's simply part of our Constitution and that needs to be upheld.

That said, I think there is an agenda in this country that wants to disarm the public. I don't know who and I don't know why, but when you have political programs like this that blatantly target people's ability to fight back, it seems pretty obvious to me.

So, now what?

 

[girlbug2]

I'll go along with that. They tend to be menaces. I think 21 would be a good age for a driver's license. I also support making driving while talking on the phone a felony, with mandatory sentencing.

Agreed.

17 states have so far passed laws banning cell use while driving. But it's anything but a felony apparently. You get stopped and fined, period.

It's pathetic how California passed a ban on handheld cell phone use while driving last year, but so few of my fellow Californians are aware of it. Very little was done to publicize this law that affects what, 90 percent of drivers on the road these days. I see it very commonly, and so far nobody I know has been stopped for it.

But get this -- for such a dangerous distraction, what do you suppose the fine would be if somebody was caught?..$20.00! A whopping 20 for the first offense, going up to a max of 50 bucks for subsequent offenses. Yup, that'll teach 'em.

Get real California, please.

 

[sgtmac_46]

There was another segment where a young black kid was interviewing a bunch of people from his town, which was overwhelmed with crime and gang members. They showed how gang members could easily get guns and how they could get whatever they wanted. Then interviewed a bunch of kids who had accidentally shot another friend. The segment ended where the boy asked President Obama to do something about the gun menace in his neighborhood and in neighborhoods across the country.

That's part and parcel to the problem in those communities......the belief that they have a 'Gun Problem' and not a 'Criminal Problem'........it's a delusional attempt to transfer blame from where it belongs, to an inanimate object.......as if getting rid of the guns would suddenly bring peace and prosperity to violent gang members!

It's almost as if these MORONS believe that guns are driving around committing drive-by shootings devoid of human operation........that mindset is indicative of a larger problem among various groups that are suffering community violence.......an almost institutionalized desire to shift blame about the root of that violence to something other than the individuals engaged in it.......so it's no surprise it's now come down to blaming it on INANIMATE OBJECTS!


What, do they suddenly believe if they get most of the guns, the gang members are suddenly going to go back to school, get jobs and become productive members of society? Actually I wouldn't be too shocked if that IS what they actually believed.


A couple problems with the idea that outlawing guns will stop inner-city violence.........

1) Gang members are young violent males, the group LEAST in need of guns to pursue violence. Remember that the Rwandan massacre, the killing of nearly 1 Million people in mere days, was committing by gangs of young men armed MOSTLY with cheap Chinese machettes, which was the weapon they used to kill the majority of that 1 Million people.

2) It's based on the even more absurd notion that we CANNOT stop multiple thousands of tons of cocaine, heroin and other drugs reaching these street gangs from Central America, South America and Asia, but we CAN stop GUNS for those same places from reaching those same gang members!

Quite frankly I can only conclude that the anti-gun crowd is made up of two types of people......well-meaning but ultimately ignorant folks who don't remotely grasp the real problem AND totalitarians who understand completely that gun control isn't crime or violence control, but REALLY a way to gain power of the populace.



America's violence problem isn't a result of it's gun culture........the problem is ENTIRELY rooted in a huge social and economic stratification. We are largely prosperous society as a whole, who's prosperity also brings with it the means and desire to seek gratification in illegal controlled substances. Underneath that larger prosperity is an inner-city sub-culture, made up of minority groups and immigrants, hallmarked by poverty and deprivation that see profiting off that desire for controlled substances as a means of gaining prosperity, and several neighbor nations, likewise driven by poverty, to profit off that multi-billion dollar market.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

After watching the show, I think they had one valid point. If you buy a gun, you need to have training in how to use it. All of the so-called experiments they performed would have been different if the defender had trained properly with the weapon in question. Even against a firearm instructor, there would have been more center of mass shots taken from cover.

That said, the entire piece, THE ENTIRE PIECE was nothing but a political infomercial. It was designed to guns are useless in self defense situations, that they were a public danger, and they needed to be controlled.

It's not hard to imagine a conspiracy against guns in this country. Especially when our national wealth is being stolen by huge financial interests. People are getting very angry about a lot of things...as much as I sympathize, I don't think we need to go there. It's simply part of our Constitution and that needs to be upheld.

That said, I think there is an agenda in this country that wants to disarm the public. I don't know who and I don't know why, but when you have political programs like this that blatantly target people's ability to fight back, it seems pretty obvious to me.

So, now what?

Now, you Just put in place all that you realistically can, and wake up every morning prepared for the fact that this is the day you could die, and apart from that everyday reminder, go about your otherwise normal business. That's all any of us can do.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I think you know already and just don't want to accept it or are being smart and not putting it on the web.

Probably best not to put it out on the web directly, even if you think it. Talking in theoretical vague terms is probably better.

Anyway, none of this has yet come to pass.......I have faith that it can still be averted.

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." -Thomas Jefferson

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Probably best not to put it out on the web directly, even if you think it. Talking in theoretical vague terms is probably better.

Anyway, none of this has yet come to pass.......I have faith that it can still be averted.

It may.

I very much hope so, I should hate to have to die over something as stupid as this.

Just put in place all that you realistically can, and wake up every morning prepared for the fact that this is the day you could die, and you'll be as well prepared as anyone can without going nuts.*shrug*

 

[sgtmac_46]

It may.

I very much hope so, I should hate to have to die over something as stupid as this.

Just put in place all that you realistically can, and wake up every morning prepared for the fact that this is the day you could die, and you'll be as well prepared as anyone can without going nuts.*shrug*

Indeed....

I move in many circles, and there seems to be an understanding among many disparate folks i've spoken to that are feeling exactly what you and others are referring to......without coordination or direction. It's spooky.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Remove guns.
We still have knives.
Remove knives.
We still have swords.
Remove swords.
We still have spears.
Remove Spears.
We still have clubs.
Remove clubs.
We still have bottles.
Remove bottles.
We still have rocks.
Good luck removing the rocks, but go ahead, remove rocks.
We still have hands.

Your move.

 

[Carol]

Remove guns.
We still have knives.
Remove knives.
We still have swords.
Remove swords.
We still have spears.
Remove Spears.
We still have clubs.
Remove clubs.
We still have bottles.
Remove bottles.
We still have rocks.
Good luck removing the rocks, but go ahead, remove rocks.
We still have hands.

Your move.

Remove hands, we still have brains...which is where the intent is to begin with.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Indeed....

I move in many circles, and there seems to be an understanding among many disparate folks i've spoken to that are feeling exactly what you and others are referring to......without coordination or direction. It's spooky.

Yep. We've seen this movie before and enough of us, not all, maybe not even half at first, but enough of us, will not tolerate a sequel.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Remove hands, we still have brains...which is where the intent is to begin with.

Remove brains.


Oops. Now we're ready for Congress.