Sir and Ma'am

Discussion in 'Korean Culture and History' started by Rough Rider, Aug 29, 2016.

  1. KangTsai

    KangTsai 2nd Black Belt

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    There is no such thing. You can address them by title if you want.
     
  2. WaterGal

    WaterGal Master Black Belt

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    Was thinking about this today... I've definitely heard some very dodgy Korean pronunciation from people whose, like, teacher's teacher's teacher's teacher was Korean. I remember one kid, we'd count to 8 in Korean while stretching, and he'd confidently shout out "Hannah! Door! etc etc, etc, Eagle! Yellow!". :facepalm:

    I have to keep on my toes as far as pronunciation goes, though! There's a decently-sized Korean-American community around here, and we're the only KKW TKD school within about 20 minutes drive radius, so we have a bunch of students with Korean ancestry, some of whom I know speak Korean at home.
     
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  3. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    We are saluting the rank, but to be even more specific, we salute the uniform. If an officer is out of uniform (including wearing a uniform incorrectly or out of regulation), no salute is required regardless of rank. And everyone salutes medal of honor recipients.
     
  4. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    I don't know of any adult male who would appreciate being called "boy" or "son." Wherever I've lived, that's an intentional slight.

    "Boss" isn't used much, and I don't think it's considered an insult. My neighbor is hosting a couple of Canadian hockey players. They're a couple of kids about 19 or so years old, and they call everyone "bud." I don't think anyone minds, but it does sound a little wierd. :)
     
  5. Rough Rider

    Rough Rider Green Belt

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    Not true. If you see someone in civilian clothing who you know to be an officer, and you are in uniform, you are supposed to salute.
     
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  6. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    Out of Army Regulation 600-25: i. Salutes are not required to be rendered or returned when the senior or subordinate, or both are— (1) In civilian attire

    From the Airman Handbook in the USAF, "salutes are exchanged upon recognition between officers or warrant officers and enlisted members of the Armed Forces when they are in uniform." An Airman may salute an officer who is in civilian attire, but it is not required.

    I didn't look up Navy or Marines, but I suspect they are similar.

    Edit: Just to add, I want to be clear that required isn't the same as recommended. If I knew the person was an officer AND I was in uniform, AND I was outside, I'd probably salute as a courtesy.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2016
  7. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    One of the things I've always loved about Hawaii is that little kids address every adult male as "Uncle" and every adult female as "Auntie". It's just what they do. I've always found it so charming.
     
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  8. Rough Rider

    Rough Rider Green Belt

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    Well, I was Navy, so here's my source:

    Basic Military Requirements NAVEDTRA 14325 CH 9-6

    In Civilian Clothes
    If you are in uniform and recognize an officer in civilian clothes, you should initiate the proper greeting and salute. In time of war, however, an officer not in uniform may be deliberately avoiding disclosure of his/her identity, so you should be cautious in following the normal peacetime rule.

    Gotta love the US military to contradict itself.
     
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  9. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    For the record, I was in the Air Force. My brothers were navy and army. They tell me the USAF is an honorable alternative to military service. :)
     
  10. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    The Indian, Pakistani and Nepalese community do that too, it is charming, polite without being ingratiating.
     
  11. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Toffs originally would have been the landed gentry but are usually considered to be anyone who talks 'posh' or has money now.

    An American poster on here went mad because another poster who was disagreeing with him called him 'boss', I remember it was a bit of a kerfuffle. I don't know if the person who used the word meant it in the way it was taken but it was certainly taken as an insult. In South Africa I know it's got connotations we don't have in the UK. 'Boy' is used in a couple of regional dialects here for any male but isn't used much other than for actual boys.

    I totally agree about manners, I think though that perhaps martial arts should be careful though and not turn classes into a quasi military environment where the teaching of manners is actually just a controlling device and one where the instructors have their egos stroked by being called sir hence my comment about reprimands being harsh. Any place where 'sir' is in every sentence worries me, general politeness doesn't need 'sir yes sir' in every sentence uttered. It does tend to come with lots of bowing too, there's also an air of subservience which is unpleasant. I think most people know the type of place I mean.
     
  12. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    Sir in every sentence? Oh, God no. That would be....I don't know what that would be. It's primarily used (at least with us) when answering, or addressing, people outside of your classmates or instructors. Although if one of the instructors asked "Can you do that?" A "yes, sir" with a confident nod and smile would be most appropriate. But I tell ya, if a student was speaking with a parent in the dojo, or a visitor, and didn't use sir or ma'am (but NOT in every sentence, that would be silly) they're getting their butt handed to them.
     
  13. KangTsai

    KangTsai 2nd Black Belt

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    You pronounce it 'gimgung' by the way.
     
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  14. KangTsai

    KangTsai 2nd Black Belt

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    At military/not casual-formal difference it's more 예 or 아닙니다.

    Again, source: Korean is my first language.
     
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  15. KangTsai

    KangTsai 2nd Black Belt

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    You can say '금강품세 시작합니다.' To sound professional. If your instructor demands you say 사범님, which is really cheesy and awkward, say "사범 [pause] 님!"(this is military). To pronounce Korean properly, never have your tongue in contact with your teeth.

    From a Korean speaker.
     
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  16. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Here, Mr. or Mrs would be appropriate ( as it would be outside classes) though many of our parents are addressed by their rank and/or name as in Capt. Sgt. etc. depending on how the children knew them. The army regimental system is very much as family thing, literally, many of the soldiers are related through generations and also marry members of other of the regiments families so often they are addressed by the familial name ie uncle, auntie.
    Polite here as I said would be Mr. Miss and Mrs. even without the surname. All female teachers regardless of anything are 'Miss'.:)
     
  17. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    This is certainly true in the UK, but it's important to remember that the vast majority of the English speaking world is not part of the UK.
     
  18. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    I do actually realise that which is why I always say 'here' or 'we' and why I also take the time to tell people what we do as I know others don't do it. If I thought everyone else was part of the UK I would hardly bother explaining what we do would I?
    On the point of the link, it gives the UK and the US pronunciations just because it's interesting to see the difference.
     
  19. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

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    The key word is 'should'
    Should = it is to be done depending upon the situation. It is not required
    Shall or Required = it is to be done no matter what the situation is.
     
  20. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    We stopped 'recognising' military people out of uniform in about 1969/70 when the Northern Ireland situation kicked off. It's only in the past couple of years that the wearing of uniform off camp/base has been allowed. Officers out of uniform aren't saluted though anyway, a soldier would brace up instead to show they recognised the officer.
     

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