Should Political/Religious/Orientational Debate be allowed here.

[Bester]

I see a lot of traffic on a few hot threads. Some of the discussion in there is, rather rude and inflammatory to say the least.

Should this be allowed to continue? Is this really the face people want the world to see? It seems to me than many peoples petty bigotry is shining through.

Where are the moderators to throw their traditional 'water' on these flames?

Personally, I think a few of those 'debating' have missed a core lesson of their own religions, and that this type of 'argument' shouldn't be allowed here. It cheapens us all, and seriously distracts from the boards stated mission..."Friendly Discussion" that is.

How long I wonder before this hostile environment starts pushing people away, and we start seeing requests for account closures? The loss of those people will lessen us all I suspect.

 

[CanuckMA]

OTOH, this part of the forum is for non-MA discussions. This issue has been brought up on other MA boards I frequent. Seems that the consensus is that since it is an off-topic part of the board, everybody is free to participate or not in any particular thread. Those threads tend to die out on their own anyway.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I see a lot of traffic on a few hot threads. Some of the discussion in there is, rather rude and inflammatory to say the least.

Should this be allowed to continue? Is this really the face people want the world to see? It seems to me than many peoples petty bigotry is shining through.

Where are the moderators to throw their traditional 'water' on these flames?

Personally, I think a few of those 'debating' have missed a core lesson of their own religions, and that this type of 'argument' shouldn't be allowed here. It cheapens us all, and seriously distracts from the boards stated mission..."Friendly Discussion" that is.

How long I wonder before this hostile environment starts pushing people away, and we start seeing requests for account closures? The loss of those people will lessen us all I suspect.

Hello!... The discussions are topic specific; so, those that are easily offended can safely avoid them by not participating. I think it would greatly diminish the integrity of the whole forum if people were not afforded to discuss the things that interest them.
Thank you.
Sean

 

[xianshino]

I think as long as it stays in the study then it is within limits but i'm fairly new and haven't seen alot of the aforementioned "questionable" posts.

 

[heretic888]

No, I don't think its a problem.

 

[Cruentus]

Hello!... The discussions are topic specific; so, those that are easily offended can safely avoid them by not participating. I think it would greatly diminish the integrity of the whole forum if people were not afforded to discuss the things that interest them.
Thank you.
Sean

I agree with Sean.

I think that the study is a place for educated discussions and debates. Sure, not all comments are educated, and they get heated, but I think that those going in need to be able to handle it. The mods. should only intervene if the thread blows way out of proportion.

I think that lienency in the study is important.

:asian:

 

[Bester]

Leniency when discussing a heated issue is required.

But, where is the line that separates "discussion" from "debate" from "argument" from "pissing match"?

Is it truly that important that everyone around you 'know' your positions and beliefs?

What truly does political affiliation, sexual orientation or belief system have to do with the arts? Yes, it is a non art area, and yes these discussions do occur on other boards.

A few interesting examples I found while looking elsewhere:
- A debate surrounding Nazi symbolism and fashion that tangents into Internet issues on E-Budo
- The whole "gay marriage" fiasco on several boards
- The 9/11, Iraq and Afghanistan issues again on several boards.

I look up above and see "MartialTalk", not "PoliticalTalk" or "SexTalk" or "WarTalk" and wonder.

Maybe I'm over reacting. I see the majority disagrees with me and that is fine.

I just wonder where all the 'martial arts' talk is these days.

 

[Tgace]

Well, on the "War Talk" issues at least I dont have a problem...we are talking about "martial arts" here and most of them have military roots.

People can only talk about martial techniques so much on a medium like this. I just cant follow "if he attacks at this angle, you respond with this.." type talk too long. Bores the #@!! out of me. This is a place to "discuss" philosophy, history, mentality etc. of the arts.

 

[Gary Crawford]

I agree with Bester,but maybe not for the same reasons.First-I love this site and I would hate to see anything make it go downhill in any way.I think these political and religious discussions have gotten too heated and might cause some potential new members to not join.I made the mistake(I shouldn't have) or reading some of the political threads.I discovered what I wish that I didn't,who is left and who is right.Because at this point in time,because of events that are occuring,politics(and religion) have become very personal issues for many of us.We are at war and there is an election coming up.Reading those threads,I lost respect for a few people that I had respected MA wise(like I said,I wish I never read them).There are hundreds,if not thousands of political forums that are for just that.I just don't think MT will suffer without the political talk.This will just get more heated as the election nears.It took a lot of self control for me to let some of the posts go unanswered,but in the interest of not pissing anyone off(and I would have!) I didn't post a thing.If the threads continue,that's fine.I know not to read them now,and maybe I should spend less time here.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I tend to agree.

I like scifi/music/anime/pro wrestling and a ton of other stuff.
I run another forum dedicated to that stuff.
I don't mind seeing an occational thread on it here (hey, it breaks the monotony up right?) but when I start thinking I should add a seperate foum here for the 'non-art' stuff, well.....there be a problemo.

Now, where the political/religious/moral/social issues are concerned, we enter a grey area.

I don't mind having the discussions and debates...hell, sometimes its fun to 'mix it up'. I've personally learned alot from both sides of the debate. Its when it gets to the 'Fire n Brimstone' or 'Im right and your not and I have to get the last best word in' stage that makes me wonder about folks.

We've gotten several complaints concerning the attitudes of several folks in a few threads. We've lost 2 members so far over it.

The study was setup so that the people wanting to take a serious focused look at a topic could do so. We did this because there was concern that the Locker Room drifted too much.

We don't mind if you discuss various issues. I honestly appreciate it when someone on the other side of an arguement teaches me something.

As Tom said "This is a place to "discuss" philosophy, history, mentality etc. of the arts." Other issues are cool too.

Just remember, when its all said and done, that faceless person on the otherside today might be the guy you see on the floor tomorow.

Do any of us really want a reputation as a racist, homophobic, bigoted, antisematic womanizing, sexist, marxistic, narcistic weenie? Definatly hard to fit all that on my business cards.

Play nice, and keep it professional. Much easier to follow the discussions and appreciate the insight without the personal shots and needling.

Thanks.

 

[Touch Of Death]

I tend to agree.

I like scifi/music/anime/pro wrestling and a ton of other stuff.
I run another forum dedicated to that stuff.
I don't mind seeing an occational thread on it here (hey, it breaks the monotony up right?) but when I start thinking I should add a seperate foum here for the 'non-art' stuff, well.....there be a problemo.

Now, where the political/religious/moral/social issues are concerned, we enter a grey area.

I don't mind having the discussions and debates...hell, sometimes its fun to 'mix it up'. I've personally learned alot from both sides of the debate. Its when it gets to the 'Fire n Brimstone' or 'Im right and your not and I have to get the last best word in' stage that makes me wonder about folks.

We've gotten several complaints concerning the attitudes of several folks in a few threads. We've lost 2 members so far over it.

The study was setup so that the people wanting to take a serious focused look at a topic could do so. We did this because there was concern that the Locker Room drifted too much.

We don't mind if you discuss various issues. I honestly appreciate it when someone on the other side of an arguement teaches me something.

As Tom said "This is a place to "discuss" philosophy, history, mentality etc. of the arts." Other issues are cool too.

Just remember, when its all said and done, that faceless person on the otherside today might be the guy you see on the floor tomorow.

Do any of us really want a reputation as a racist, homophobic, bigoted, antisematic womanizing, sexist, marxistic, narcistic weenie? Definatly hard to fit all that on my business cards.

Play nice, and keep it professional. Much easier to follow the discussions and appreciate the insight without the personal shots and needling.

Thanks.

I was just called narrow minded bigot today for using the term "our word". Sucks to be me. :asian:
Sean

 

[OUMoose]

I tend to agree.
Do any of us really want a reputation as a racist, homophobic, bigoted, antisematic womanizing, sexist, marxistic, narcistic weenie? Definatly hard to fit all that on my business cards.

Hey, if the President can do it, so can I durnit! :jedi1:

 

[loki09789]

No problem with a forum for these topics, just think that moderation, by posters themselves and by mods/admins, should be a little tighter at times. Maybe a formal warning/suspension/banning continuum review and then some consistent enforcement - especially on these topics - would help.

These topics are really personal and folks tend to be so invested in them that they take topical criticism and differences as personal criticism and differences. It is sort of like the level of emotional license that people give themselves driving down the road... I would never tell his mother, but my son's first word was one that I use too much while driving

 

[Cruentus]

I think that when the "heated discussion" goes south is when people result to insulting each other, especially through direct name calling, or direct attacks. That's when the mods should step in in my opinion.

In terms of 2 members leaving over the study, all I have to say is that is their problem, not Bob Hubbard's or any of the mods. They are the ones who need to build up a little tenacity. I say this because for one, they don't need to go to the study in the first place. For two, unless they were hammered and called a bunch of names and no one did anything about it, debating is fair game, so what right do they have to complain? This sounds like it may be a case of "these people's opinions don't fit my worldview, so I'm going to leave!" And with that attitude, they were on their way out the door anyways; they would have left over a martial arts "debate" just the same as a political/religious one.

So, that's my feeling. Keep the study, because you get a lot of good traffic and discussions there. Take the "Walk softly but carry a big stick" approach to moderating it. And, if you don't like the debates in the study, then don't go there. And don't worry about people who leave because of the study, because I am of the opinion that they would have left anyways.

Problems solved. :ultracool

 

[someguy]

If you start with debating stuff you sometimes go back and adress specific points people have raised. They address what you have countered with some oter peopple come in and in the end every body gets mad and bam you got a flame war. Sort of.
The study probably has the most flame wars simply because of te volital nature of what is being disscussed. We also learn more about the people we are meeting with. We also learn something about ourselves. I realized I'm kind of psuedo-agnostic in a way.
There does seem to be a lack of women who frequent the study. Just something I find intresting. I wonder if that is tied to this.
Most importantly though if I have offended anybody tthat wasn't my intent. If I offend you feel free to say it and I'll probably correct it if I see that it needs correction.
:asian:

 

[Cryozombie]

Another problem I see is that people only see a small part of who we are in the discussions... and then decide we are "racist" or "homophobic" or whatnot...

It doesn't make it so... but if you "Ban" discussions because someone might be offended, we should all sit home with duct tape on our mouthes, because anything we say could be offensive to someone...

 

[Touch Of Death]

Another problem I see is that people only see a small part of who we are in the discussions... and then decide we are "racist" or "homophobic" or whatnot...

It doesn't make it so... but if you "Ban" discussions because someone might be offended, we should all sit home with duct tape on our mouthes, because anything we say could be offensive to someone...

Hey!, now I'm offended!

 

[Cruentus]

Hey!, now I'm offended!

Yea, techno...I can't believe you called TOD a raceist homophobe, and a whatnot!

:rofl:

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Another problem I see is that people only see a small part of who we are in the discussions... and then decide we are "racist" or "homophobic" or whatnot...

It doesn't make it so... but if you "Ban" discussions because someone might be offended, we should all sit home with duct tape on our mouthes, because anything we say could be offensive to someone...

I dunno....I think some folks need some 'Duct' taping....

Then again....Paul only wrote 1 sentence...it may have already happened....

:rofl:

 

[Cruentus]

I dunno....I think some folks need some 'Duct' taping....

Then again....Paul only wrote 1 sentence...it may have already happened....

:rofl:

:roflmao: