Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
:uhyeah:MisterMike said:Yea, it was written by Anonymous, not Unknown.
Short form 4
- Thread starter teej
- Start date
K
KenpoNoChikara
Guest
Short 4, huh? Haven't heard of it, but sounds interesting....
Any comments on how accurate this list is. I noticed it in my notebook recently. I printed this out a few years ago but I have no use for it at present.
http://www.pcwood.com/kenpo/forms/short4notes.html
http://www.pcwood.com/kenpo/forms/short4notes.html
K
KenpoNoChikara
Guest
Oooohhhhh......must....print.....list....
Seriously, though I don't think anyone at my dojo has done a short 4, but I'd really like to learn it... Time to start practicing
If anyone has any pointers for an inexperienced ma (aka:me) on this, please share, I could use all the help i can get
Respectfully, kenponochikara
Seriously, though I don't think anyone at my dojo has done a short 4, but I'd really like to learn it... Time to start practicing
If anyone has any pointers for an inexperienced ma (aka:me) on this, please share, I could use all the help i can get
Respectfully, kenponochikara
Sitting here trying to think of this visually it seems pretty tough without an instructor stepping you through the form. If that is in fact the correct directions on how the form works the transitions seem a bit tough. At least that's my opinion. :asian:KenpoNoChikara said:
ikenpo
Black Belt
I've seen a version where it was done entirely on the right side only....
jb
jb
Should I dare even ask if they practiced the form on the opposite side? :idunno:jbkenpo said:
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
Well, if you are one of my students...... you would know what the answer is for my requirements.jfarnsworth said:
:ultracool
:uhyeah: I already know the answer.Goldendragon7 said:
I thought I was going to begin to see WWIII
kenpo3631
Black Belt
Why, why, why, would you practice Short Form Four on the left side? If you are going to do that, why don't you just practice Long Form Four and do both sides in the same form. Hey that's in a way like economy of motion
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
I am curious if you feel this way about short form 3 as well?kenpo3631 said:Why, why, why, would you practice Short Form Four on the left side? If you are going to do that, why don't you just practice Long Form Four and do both sides in the same form. Hey that's in a way like economy of motion
:idunno:
B
bzarnett
Guest
So what is your definition of economy of motion then?:idunno:kenpo3631 said:Why, why, why, would you practice Short Form Four on the left side? If you are going to do that, why don't you just practice Long Form Four and do both sides in the same form. Hey that's in a way like economy of motion
kenpo3631
Black Belt
The way I understand the forms is that they build upon each other. 1's & 2's are Basic & Excercise Forms and the 3's 4, 5, & 6 are like Encyclopedia Forms, highlighting certain aspects I.e. Long 5 shows you takedowns.
If you do Long Form 4 then don't you do both sides of the form? and wouldn't the same go for Long Form 3 and so on?
My point is this, what new ideas or motion are you learning by doing Short Form Four? Better yet if the forms build on one another then why didn't Mr. Parker include it in the syllabus of Kenpo and why is it being taught after Long Four as it is so customarily taught?
If you do Long Form 4 then don't you do both sides of the form? and wouldn't the same go for Long Form 3 and so on?
My point is this, what new ideas or motion are you learning by doing Short Form Four? Better yet if the forms build on one another then why didn't Mr. Parker include it in the syllabus of Kenpo and why is it being taught after Long Four as it is so customarily taught?
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
You still didn't answer my question earlier on short 3, isn't that the same as doing short form 4? What are you learning by doing short Form 3 only on one side?kenpo3631 said:
In the same vain.... why did Mr. Parker only teach one side of Short From # 3 then?kenpo3631 said:
If it has no merit as you suggest.... then why did Mr. Parker teach short form 4 to anyone..... after all it was he himself that brought it up and revealed it in the first place.
:asian:
kenpo3631
Black Belt
Oh mighty Goldendragon...did you not read my post? All I want to know is what if anything new would you gain from doing short form four on the left side besides ambideterity? Did you not learn what Long Form Four had to teach while learning it, what other info can an abbreviated version of this form teach? I also posted that the forms build upon each other. If this is true, why did EPK Sr. not teach it before Long Four? Mr. Parker was very methodical as you well know and for him to do this just seems too far out of character for him don't you think? The "commercial" art was devised to follow a regimented pattern for the students to follow, to teach Short Four after Long Four is not logical or sequential. As an aside - I have also heard of people asking him about why there was no short four or five and that he created them later to quell the masses so to speak. As far as short three on the left don't you pick up the left side of the motion when you do Long Form 3?
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
Well, I don't know about the "Oh Mighty" business, but yes I did read your post but am not a code talker.kenpo3631 said:
Do you mean "ambidexterity"? I can't answer you on that one.... I don't know what you know or don't know or if you would gain anything from it.:idunno:kenpo3631 said:
Geeze, now that you ask me that, I'm not sure I did learn all of what it had to teach, I would however, look forward to you someday sharing what you learned so I can compare notes.kenpo3631 said:
I would agree with that.kenpo3631 said:
It is taught as an "option" not a mandatory part of the normal syllabus or curriculums from my recollection.kenpo3631 said:
Well thank you Lance, yes I did know him quite well, (still wish I would have had even more time with him), and no it was not out of character.... he made updates or changes all the time when he found value in something that might help someone in HIS system.kenpo3631 said:
If you say so...... maybe he just screwed up or something and forgot to call you and ask ~ after all Ed Parker was the one that revealed it in the first place at the time and place of HIS choosing..... I never try to second guess him myself.kenpo3631 said:
Well then, there ya go. You have the answer.kenpo3631 said:
Do you? Hmmmmmm, seems to me only "some" of the movements/techniques are done on the left but not ALL in Long Form 3, but then I would like you to share with me your views and understandings on this. I would be interested.kenpo3631 said:
:ultracool
parkerkarate
Blue Belt
I think short form three is just the easy way of getting people ready for the harder forms with techniques such as Long Form 5 and 6.
kenpo3631
Black Belt
Wow! Please pass the tums, me thinks there was too much sarcasm on this plate.
GD take it easy big fella. The premise of my post was to raise the question as to why Short Form Four is even practiced. I will never claim to know it all about anything in Kenpo however I feel some valid questions are raised.
I am far from learning everything there is to know about Long Four too and would love to see your notes on the form, I am sure I would learn more about it. My point in my state ment stands as is ~ What will an abbreviated version of the form that you already know teach you as far as theories, principles, movement, timing, etc.?
"Option" for what :idunno: For doing Long Four? I don't understand the option thing except as in the case of using it as a tounament form instead of Long Four where your back will be turned to the judges for half of the form, especially when those who had no knowledge of the Parker Kenpo forms were judging you. So, GD what option?
Yes, no doubt I am sure he did make updates and changes all the time, I remember having to explain why structures where changing to the under belts while I was teaching for my original instructor in the late 80's & early 90's. What other values are there to Short Form Four other than it being somewhat easier to learn than Long Four? Besides that, didn't the premiere of Short Form Four come out long after Long Form Four was already established and set as the "standard" form for whatever belt level it was required for at the time?
It's not what I say sir. I know from talking to his students that yes Mr. Parker sometimes did things out of the ordinary but to say that the "commercialized" version of Ed Parker's Kenpo System, as it is referred to sometimes, is NOT regimented. That there is no structured pattern for students to follow as a guide? Heck it has a syllabus! You stated yourself that the form was an "optional" form and we all know Mr. Parker premeired Short Four long after Long Form Four was the "standard". The question is why did he do it? Also sir, if you never questioned his reasoning sir, then shame on you. Isn't that what he wanted, to have us be independent thinkers and ask "why"?
Mr. Conatser do not be offended by what I am asking, I am just putting forth my objective opinion for discussion. :asian:
GD take it easy big fella. The premise of my post was to raise the question as to why Short Form Four is even practiced. I will never claim to know it all about anything in Kenpo however I feel some valid questions are raised.
.
I am far from learning everything there is to know about Long Four too and would love to see your notes on the form, I am sure I would learn more about it. My point in my state ment stands as is ~ What will an abbreviated version of the form that you already know teach you as far as theories, principles, movement, timing, etc.?
"Option" for what :idunno: For doing Long Four? I don't understand the option thing except as in the case of using it as a tounament form instead of Long Four where your back will be turned to the judges for half of the form, especially when those who had no knowledge of the Parker Kenpo forms were judging you. So, GD what option?
Yes, no doubt I am sure he did make updates and changes all the time, I remember having to explain why structures where changing to the under belts while I was teaching for my original instructor in the late 80's & early 90's. What other values are there to Short Form Four other than it being somewhat easier to learn than Long Four? Besides that, didn't the premiere of Short Form Four come out long after Long Form Four was already established and set as the "standard" form for whatever belt level it was required for at the time?
It's not what I say sir. I know from talking to his students that yes Mr. Parker sometimes did things out of the ordinary but to say that the "commercialized" version of Ed Parker's Kenpo System, as it is referred to sometimes, is NOT regimented. That there is no structured pattern for students to follow as a guide? Heck it has a syllabus! You stated yourself that the form was an "optional" form and we all know Mr. Parker premeired Short Four long after Long Form Four was the "standard". The question is why did he do it? Also sir, if you never questioned his reasoning sir, then shame on you. Isn't that what he wanted, to have us be independent thinkers and ask "why"?
Mr. Conatser do not be offended by what I am asking, I am just putting forth my objective opinion for discussion. :asian:
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-Michael
-Michael
