Shadow Techniques

Discussion in 'Hapkido' started by Xander.2, Mar 10, 2019.

  1. Xander.2

    Xander.2 White Belt

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    So I've been practicing for my Hapkido testing today, like all the Kata's and stuff. But I was wondering if anyone here can practice their techniques alone. Kind of like shadow boxing, that's why I was calling them shadow techniques. So far I've been able to get the movements down but I don't know if it'll actually work or not... What are your thoughts on this?
     
  2. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm not sure for hapkido, but I've definitely found that I can practice throws and wrist locks in the air. Not as effective as against a person, obviously, but it still helps build the muscle memory. It can also help me think through something I'm having difficulty getting. You just have to spend more time making sure you're not making a mistake since there's no feedback.
     
  3. Xander.2

    Xander.2 White Belt

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    Ok thanks for the advice. It's just that there's this specific move that even if you go through the motions right it might not work on someone and it's really pissing me off.
     
  4. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    What's the move?
     
  5. Xander.2

    Xander.2 White Belt

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    I don't know the name of it, but it's from same hand cuff grab. You envelop their hand with your opposite hand, and with the hand that they grabbed you with you position your hand onto their wrist via a circular motion and then press down. I've got it to work a couple times before but it's the one move that's going to drag me down.
     
  6. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    If you've got a grading coming up you should probably learn the name
     
  7. Xander.2

    Xander.2 White Belt

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    My sensei doesn't know the name, we just call it "yellow belt technique number 1." Yeah I know it's bad but that's just the way it is.
     
  8. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    I’m pretty sure I know the move you’re thinking of. Cover their hand, turn your wrist over, then push straight down.

    I’m not a Korean MAist. No idea what it’s called in English nor Japanese. A lot of the kata bunkai guys say it’s in a lot of kata where you chamber one hand with the other on top of it. Also notably (for me anyway) found in Kanku Sho kata. At about :34 in when he turns, :46 when he’s facing forward, and near the end when he’s turned away again.
     
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  9. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    The solo training (shadow technique) is partner training without partner. You can use solo training to "polish" your technique.

    You can use:

    - partner training to "develop" skill.
    - sparring/wrestling to "test" skill.
    - weight equipment to "enhance" skill.
    - solo training to "polish" skill.

     
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  10. Xander.2

    Xander.2 White Belt

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    Yeah it looks like it

    That's some pretty good advice, I never saw it that way.
     
  11. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    There's nothing bad about that name...yes, in this case, that's the name you guys are using. A name is just a way to identify the technique, and in some systems the techniques are actually numbered (ikkyo, nikkyo, sankyo). So the name may not be what others use, but that has no impact on your training (except that it's hard to ask for help on a forum).
     
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  12. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    The reason that the term "polish" is used because it's just like a rock that when it rolls down from the mountain top, that rock may have a lot of sharp edges. When it reaches to the bottom of the mountain, all those sharp edges will be gone and the rock is smooth.

    The sole training cannot help you to develop any skill. It can only help you to make your technique more "smooth" if you have already developed it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
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  13. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    To your original question, yes, you can "shadow" any movement. Just as a boxer could practice a bad transition in his shadow boxing, you could practice a bad lock in your shadow grappling. Shadow training is just practicing the movement you already know how to do. When I've been traveling a lot or had other reasons I couldn't train consistently with a training partner, I did a lot of shadow training to keep the movements trained, and to examine (using just my own memory and imagination) what transitions might be like from specific situations into different techniques. Then when I was with a training partner, I could examine anything I found interesting or odd in my shadow training.

    I actually discourage students from shadow-training much on what they don't yet understand, because it can ingrain movement that will need to be unlearned. So, for you, work with a training partner and get the technique working properly before you try to practice it in your shadow training.
     
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  14. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Agree with you 100% there. If you have not "developed" any techniques yet, you will have nothing to "polish". Sometime, people go the other way around as solo form first and application later. I don't like that approach.
     
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  15. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Agreed. I've said before that I don't understand the approach of teaching a solo form, then the application from it, if the form is supposed to be used to learn specific techniques. Without knowing the techniques, you're learning a reasonably vague facsimile of the movement, and will likely take longer. The form is more useful, IMO, for practicing techniques that are already learned. The techniques need not be mastered, but the form is most effective if the technique comes first.
     
  16. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I think the quote system got messed up, i wasnt the one that said the line you quoted.
     
  17. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Sorry, that was an error.
     
  18. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    If we look around, a

    - Judo teacher will never teach a hip throw form and then teach the application later.
    - swimmer coach will never teach how to swim on dry land and then get into water later.
    - ...

    What did traditional MA teaches solo form first and application later?
     
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  19. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    There are actually swim coaches that teach how to swim on dry land first. Or teach you how to swim while holding the wall, or on a boogie board.
     
  20. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree. The single-technique forms (what I call “classical forms”) are a different thing, and I wonder if this is the Japanese approach, and was applied to Okinawan forms. In Daito-Ryu (and NGA), there are single-technique forms used to introduce a technique. They are two-man forms, and are essentially the same as any beginning version used to teach a grappling technique (no resistance, easy access to the technique). So they are used as the starting point for a technique. If you use that same approach with the Okinawan forms, it reverses what I see as the appropriate pedagogical approach.

    That all assumes the Okinawan approach was ever the reverse, and that I’m right about the Japanese approach. I could be wrong on both counts.
     
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