Shadow boxing with weights

[Headhunter]

so lately I've been doing some shadow boxing rounds with small weights something I've never done before but I've noticed a lot of benefits from it my arms feel stronger and when I don't use them I can punch faster and harder. It's been interesting to see how it develops. Anyone else use this? I know there's some people who believe doing that slows you down but I haven't noticed it

 

[pdg]

If you keep good form and don't go too heavy I can't see it slowing you down.

If anything, I'd say the opposite... Shadow box with bare hands, develop lightning speed, then add a pound to each hand (16oz gloves) - it's hardly going to speed up.

So (my opinion), if you get used to shadow boxing with say 2lb in each hand, you'll go faster for longer with lighter loads.



Edit to add: I can see it slowing you down while you're weighted, sure...

 

[_Simon_]

Ah nice HH. Yeah have never really tried it but it sounds like it would be beneficial.

I think mostly what I've heard is that it's never a great idea to add weights to technique training, because it can alter how you perform the technique and thus screwing up motor patterns that you need to rely on for your sport (and introduce new movement patterns which can throw you off when it counts), but I can't see how doing a little would hurt.

I've also heard the opposite, that it helps reinforce good technique, as you have to perform the technique under greater stress/resistance and it makes you focus more on keeping it good. But can see it going the other way too (when fatiguing, breaking proper technique just in order to beat the pull of the weight and make it easier etc).

But awesome that you're already feeling results from it, I'll have to give it a crack

 

[drop bear]

tripple G's routine.

 

[pdg]

But can see it going the other way too (when fatiguing, breaking proper technique just in order to beat the pull of the weight and make it easier etc).

I did have that sort of thought in my head - kinda.

If you repeat until failure and try to keep going then I think it can do more harm than good.

If you repeat until just before failure each time (the very first punch that starts to loop, or drop on the return, stop), then each successive time should see longer performance.

Basically, don't treat it like a lifting exercise for 'epic gainz bro'

 

[_Simon_]

I did have that sort of thought in my head - kinda.

If you repeat until failure and try to keep going then I think it can do more harm than good.

If you repeat until just before failure each time (the very first punch that starts to loop, or drop on the return, stop), then each successive time should see longer performance.

Basically, don't treat it like a lifting exercise for 'epic gainz bro'

Haha yep exactly

 

[JR 137]

Dumbbells in the hand while punching is a bit of a polarizing topic. Some people think it helps, other think it hurts. If it feels good to you, keep at it IMO.

I’ve tried it a few times, and I don’t like it at all. It doesn’t feel natural to me. Looking at it from a physics standpoint, the resistance is in the wrong direction; the weight is pulling down rather than resisting in the opposite direction to the punch. If you think about it this way, it would be like doing a standing bench-press with a barbell or dumbbells. I also don’t like the feel of the momentum the dumbbells have, especially at the end of the punch. Although it doesn’t make much sense at all (maybe higher level physics would make sense of it), heavy boxing gloves feel natural to me. There’s a night and day difference to the way 16 oz gloves feel vs a 1 lb dumbbell. I guess it’s like dumbbells vs kettlebells.

If you like it, use it. I like pulleys set behind me at shoulder height much better. I don’t like bands very much, but I’d rather those over punching with dumbbells. Only drawback is pulleys and bands are more restrictive in moving around.

If you’re using weights for punching, have you also tried them for kicking? I used to put on ankle cuffs attached to a low pulley for kicks. I really miss that. It got the stabilizing muscles just as much as the kicking muscles.

 

[Danny T]

We often do heavy bag rounds with thai pads rather than gloves. Really burns out the arms & shoulders.

 

[Headhunter]

anofher thing I'm doing is blocking with the weights and doing forms while holding them. I don't know if it's doing much good but it's not doing anything bad either and its exercise either way so meh

 

[pdg]

doing forms while holding them.

I occasionally (should do it more) do patterns with weights.

I have 1kg ankle weights, 500g wrist wraps and 500g mini dumbbell things (they have a strap, so I can still do the open hand bits).

 

[_Simon_]

I’ve tried it a few times, and I don’t like it at all. It doesn’t feel natural to me. Looking at it from a physics standpoint, the resistance is in the wrong direction; the weight is pulling down rather than resisting in the opposite direction to the punch. If you think about it this way, it would be like doing a standing bench-press with a barbell or dumbbells. I also don’t like the feel of the momentum the dumbbells have, especially at the end of the punch.

...

If you like it, use it. I like pulleys set behind me at shoulder height much better. I don’t like bands very much, but I’d rather those over punching with dumbbells. Only drawback is pulleys and bands are more restrictive in moving around.

Yeah that makes a lot of sense, and I was going to suggest that, rubber tubing tied behind you for punches, that way the resistance matches the line of force for the punch. But yeah like you said it's a stationary activity. I've done this before and I quite enjoyed it.

And also even facing towards the band, the resistance working the hikite (retraction) is fun to do (your punch flies out though hehe)

 

[skribs]

I've even heard of the opposite. Resistance straps set up in the direction of the strike, to get you used to a faster speed.

My opinion is it can be good as part of your training, but not all of it. Here's what I'd keep in mind:

1. You are building muscles in the direction of the punch, but you're also building stabilizers that are going to hold the object while you punch. If you go too slow, more muscle mass will go towards holding the weight than punching with it. So don't use so much weight that it slows you down, and don't use the weights to slow you down to work on technique. When you're using the weights, punch as hard as you safely can with them, to focus the muscles on the punching motion.
2. If you want to build muscles in the direction of the punch, do workouts that work out those muscles. I'm no expert here, so I could be wrong, but I believe pushups/bench (anything working chest and triceps) are going to be good for straight punches; tricep extensions, dips and shoulder presses will be good for backhands and chops, chest flies and bicep curls will be good for hooks. Don't skip core and legs as those are where a lot of the power comes from.
3. Practice the technique with weights sometimes, but also practice without, so you're used to the muscles required to do the job normally.

Personally, I would only do this if I have time outside of general physical training and normal martial arts practice. I don't even have time for physical training right now, so it's not something I'd do.

 

[Headhunter]

So I've been doing this every day and it's definetely working. I'm actually doing more blocks with weights rather than punches at the moment but my blocks feel so much stronger and faster. Me and my son have been meeting up at weekends to train together in his garage and we do a defence drill where he just throws punches at me for 2 minutes and I just block and today he noticed my blocks had a lot more power and my reaction speed was quicker.

Just for reference to I'm blocking with 1.5 kg weights and punching with 1 kg. of course I'm also practicing blocks without them to so I do one set of weighted blocks one set of normal

 

[JowGaWolf]

Anyone else use this? I know there's some people who believe doing that slows you down but I haven't noticed it

If you go too heavy then you'll spend part of your effort to lift the weight and part of your effort to send your punch forward. The effort that you spend to lift the weight is what slows you down.

Someone without weights will punch faster because most of their effort is used to send the punch forward. If you are using boxing gloves to spar then using weights will help deal with the weight of the gloves. I use kung fu wrings to help me, because it distributes the weight in a way that the weight is not always at the end of my fist. The rings also help me to keep better tabs on how I'm driving my punching energy. It also helps me to condition my forearms and wrists.

If you want to punch faster then there are other exercises that you can do that doesn't require weights. YMAA has a book called Analysis of Shaolin Chin Na that has conditioning exercises that make the extension of your arm faster.

If you are going to use weights, just remember that you aren't trying to lift heavy, You are just trying to add a little weight If I didn't have Iron Rings then I would probably use weighted gloves and I'm probably will eventually get weighted gloves in the future as my first experience with boxing gloves was "man these things get heavy"

Dumbells vs Weighted gloves. I'm personally going weighted gloves.

 

[skribs]

If you go too heavy then you'll spend part of your effort to lift the weight and part of your effort to send your punch forward. The effort that you spend to lift the weight is what slows you down.

Someone without weights will punch faster because most of their effort is used to send the punch forward. If you are using boxing gloves to spar then using weights will help deal with the weight of the gloves. I use kung fu wrings to help me, because it distributes the weight in a way that the weight is not always at the end of my fist. The rings also help me to keep better tabs on how I'm driving my punching energy. It also helps me to condition my forearms and wrists.

If you want to punch faster then there are other exercises that you can do that doesn't require weights. YMAA has a book called Analysis of Shaolin Chin Na that has conditioning exercises that make the extension of your arm faster.

If you are going to use weights, just remember that you aren't trying to lift heavy, You are just trying to add a little weight If I didn't have Iron Rings then I would probably use weighted gloves and I'm probably will eventually get weighted gloves in the future as my first experience with boxing gloves was "man these things get heavy"

Dumbells vs Weighted gloves. I'm personally going weighted gloves.

I don't think it's about that you're slower WITH the weights - it's that training with weights trains you to do the punches slower, so you're used to slow punches when you don't have anything in your fists.

As to the YMAA book - would that apply to other things as well? (For example, kicks)?

 

[jobo]

I don't think it's about that you're slower WITH the weights - it's that training with weights trains you to do the punches slower, so you're used to slow punches when you don't have anything in your fists.

As to the YMAA book - would that apply to other things as well? (For example, kicks)?

That's not how it works, if you practise sprinting with a great big elastic band tied to your waist , you will " sprint" very slowly, that doesn't make you a slow sprinter, if you take the resistance away you will now be FASTer than you were before. What matters is that you are developing max power, that max power will convert to faster movement when you Un weight it, which is the same reason people training running with ancke weights or rUck sacks full of bricks

 

[skribs]

That's not how it works, if you practise sprinting with a great big elastic band tied to your waist , you will " sprint" very slowly, that doesn't make you a slow sprinter, if you take the resistance away you will now be FASTer than you were before. What matters is that you are developing max power, that max power will convert to faster movement when you Un weight it, which is the same reason people training running with ancke weights or rUck sacks full of bricks

You have the potential to be faster. However, if you aren't used to applying that speed, then you might not actually be faster. In addition to the strength training, you also have to practice applying the speed.

There are actually some martial artists who train with negative resistance to get themselves used to kicking at faster speeds.

 

[jobo]

You have the potential to be faster. However, if you aren't used to applying that speed, then you might not actually be faster. In addition to the strength training, you also have to practice applying the speed.

There are actually some martial artists who train with negative resistance to get themselves used to kicking at faster speeds.

I'm give you that to some degree, but it's not slow movement that reduce your speed to a lack of fast movement, but liFting a heavy weight as fast as you can is fast movment.

For instance is easier to throw a baseball a long way than a tennis ball
A punch with a half pound weight in the fiST is probably faster than an UNWeighted d one

 

[skribs]

I'm give you that to some degree, but it's not slow movement that reduce your speed to a lack of fast movement, but liFting a heavy weight as fast as you can is fast movment.

For instance is easier to throw a baseball a long way than a tennis ball
A punch with a half pound weight in the fiST is probably faster than an UNWeighted d one

There's a difference between a punch and a throw.

With a punch, you are constantly adding force to the punch until the moment of peak extension. There is a constant acceleration that will be slowed down by additional mass to accelerate.

With a throw, there is no more acceleration on the ball once it is thrown, so at that point it is up to momentum, and the baseball has more momentum to combat the energy lost due to wind resistance.

 

[jobo]

There's a difference between a punch and a throw.

With a punch, you are constantly adding force to the punch until the moment of peak extension. There is a constant acceleration that will be slowed down by additional mass to accelerate.

With a throw, there is no more acceleration on the ball once it is thrown, so at that point it is up to momentum, and the baseball has more momentum to combat the energy lost due to wind resistance.

Tennis ball but with a tennis bat go at 100 mph and probably a lot Father than you can throw a base ball. Wind resistance isn't the biggest issue

The two are the same, if you take the release of the ball and the landing of the punch as the same moment, Ie the conversion between kinetic energy and force.Not forget that kinetic energy is speed based not acceleration dependent

Your arm is really quite heavy half a pound weight added will make Only a very slight diffeance To how quickly you can reach max acceleration,, once you have reached max acceleration, which will happen early in the punching action the extra weight will add momentum making the PUNching arm movE quicker than if it was empty.

So yes marginally slower to reach max acceleration,But accelerated for longEr to a higher speed and Hold that speed better t