Scenario/Role play

[Bigshadow]

None what so ever...

Reminds me of my cousin and his father, who while camping kept being approached by a rainbow person (think hippy) from a neighboring camp, bumming various items of food or whatever, every so often. While in the middle of one of the visits, my cousin pulls out his .44 mag revolver and begins to clean it at the table. The guy promptly left and never bothered them again.

 

[Drac]

Reminds me of my cousin and his father, who while camping kept being approached by a rainbow person (think hippy) from a neighboring camp, bumming various items of food or whatever, every so often. While in the middle of one of the visits, my cousin pulls out his .44 mag revolver and begins to clean it at the table. The guy promptly left and never bothered them again.

Go figure????

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Not so one can use their new found skill. See, that is an ego trip. It is self serving. IMO, you are wanting to help, not because you want to help, but to serve yourself by using your art.

Didn't anyone ever mention that ego can get you killed?

This is an excellent post! Do not let your ego run you. Instead use common sence and call the police while you monitor the situation and await for their arrival. This way you could feed information to the dispathcer while the police are on their way. In this way you are doing something positive while avoiding doing something that could end up negatively.

 

[exile]

Reminds me of my cousin and his father, who while camping kept being approached by a rainbow person (think hippy) from a neighboring camp, bumming various items of food or whatever, every so often. While in the middle of one of the visits, my cousin pulls out his .44 mag revolver and begins to clean it at the table. The guy promptly left and never bothered them again.

Funny, that... :wink1:

 

[jdinca]

Ask a police officer how many times a response to a domestic dispute results on both parties turning on the cops. Now, put yourself in that position as the next door neighbor. Do you think the parties involved would be more, or less likely to go after you for butting in? You run the risk of injury, or even death, or at the very least, becoming part of the problem as opposed to part of the solution.

I understand the desire to help but 911 is the way to go.

 

[stabpunch]

oh i'd i'd like to leave this thread with an image...

Me, my super hero vigilante mates in the front yard having a barbecue sharpening our swords cleaning our guns. Two kegs of beer. We don't wear our underwear out side although it does show from the top of our baggy jeans. Me polishing my genuine 'owned by John Wayne spurs' (ebay $49) under the shade of my white 10 gallon sherrifs hat.

yall come back now ya hear...

 

[stabpunch]

anyone here remember any of this?

Re: Defending the weak
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A lot of discussion goes on about self defense, but very often I have a completely different concern: being on guard not to defend myself, but others that may need it.
This is something any moral person should be doing... and not nearly enough people do. It was the source of the boy scout pledge to do a good deed every day - often made fun of, with skits about scouts helping elderly ladies across the street who didn't want to go - but a good moral grounding for any person. Too many children are not taught to look out for anyone but themselves.
And you better REALLY think about getting in the middle of a public domestic dispute, as these are THE most dangerous conflicts to become entangled in (just ask any LEO: one minute they are defending the "victim," the next minute they are defending themselves against the victim while trying to arrest the perp!).
Happens more often than you can imagine..Now if you see a female being beaten my a male husband or not on duty or not I'm stepping in..
Excerpt:
One dynamic brought forth was the Bystander Effect. This theory speculates that as the “number of bystanders increases, the likelihood of any one bystander helping another decreases.”
Too true...Someone always suffers because of someone elses inability to act..
Sad but true..`The kind of neigborhood I grew up in has faded into history..You knoe everybody and they knew YOU..If you messed up as a kid you got disciplined by one of the neighbors AND THEN you got it again when you got home...
That is so true! I remember it being that way when I was a kid. It certainly is far from that today
That is so true! I remember it being that way when I was a kid. It certainly is far from that today.
You said it... Now we respond to calls because some neighbor YELLED at another neighbor's children...
Come on over to my little town. Still like it was 30 or more years ago around here. Usually that is a bad thing because it means those involved haven't been open to change or growth, but when it comes to neighborhoods, it is the best thing that could happen. Sure, it is a small dumpy little place, but the value of your neighbors are still held in high regard
Dealt with plenty of it before, though. Along with the "he parked on the street in front of my house!" or "their tree dropped leaves into my yard!" and "their making too much noise..."
(Has it ever occurred to some of these folks to knock on their neighbors door and ask them to turn it down or move the car or whatever?)
All of this reminded me of a great example of someone not calling (because they didn't want to bother the police!).

 

[MJS]

Furthermore, you can tell the dispatcher that "I do not wish to be contacted." This way, you eliminate the chance of the neighbor seeing an officer walk up to your front door to talk to you.

Yes sir, thats correct!! I take many anonymous calls every day. There are times that the person gives me the info. but states that they don't want the person to know that they called, but they will talk to the officer on the phone.

A number of anony. calls have turned into some great arrests.

Mike

 

[MJS]

In a domestic situation unless you actually witness it you cannot be sure what is going on, you actually have no proof that the father was hitting the son. How do you know it wasn't a computer type game they were playing that got them excited and yelling? Maybe no-one was hit, maybe the son was beating up the father, maybe the mother was the one doing the beating maybe... maybe.......maybe...
The advice given here is the only option, phone the police! (999 here!) if you believe there's a domestic violence situation or have reason for concern.

Thats true. There have been many times when it was people talking loud, etc., but even if the person is not 100% sure, an officer is still sent. As the person taking these types of calls, I'm not going to assume that its nothing, when in reality it could be an active domestic.

 

[Drac]

So you guys don't actually do any martial arts

To whom is that remark directed??? How long have YOU studied??

Man i'd love to do a seminar with one of you guys

Anytime!!!

you can't think of say a verbal judo technique that may diffuse the situation if you were presented with it?

Verbal Judo is BULL..So tell us how many "Domestic is Progress calls have you responsed to ??? Me, I 've lost count...

Maybe i should ask what do you do in a dark alley when three youths with a knife try to take your wallet?[

Have you ever walked a beat in in Inner City??? I have and am still here to tell about it..With no witnesses around there are NO RULES..

If there is a domestic in progress and you want to respond and not call the cops "Go Fo It"..

 

[MJS]

You can't think of say a verbal judo technique that may diffuse the situation if you were presented with it?

What makes you think "verbal Judo" is going to work? Then what?

So you guys don't actually do any martial arts

LOL! You're kidding right? Dude, I've been training for over 20yrs. How many years have you put in?

Maybe the scenario scares you guys because of the REALITY involved?

It is not the responsibility of a civilian to respond to a domestic.

Maybe i should ask what do you do in a dark alley when three youths with a knife try to take your wallet? Oh wait none of us would be alone in a dark alley. If they jumped me i would use the ancient one finger technique of usedafonecalldapolice-fu...

Two different scenarios. In the domestic scenario, YOU are putting yourself directly into harms way. In the alley scenario, you are minding your own business and harm sought you out. Its no different than if I'm walking to my car and someone approaches me. I'm minding my own business. I didn't tell this person to come up to me.

Go feed weed to a nag so you can get on a high horse somewhere else.

Apparently you are not pleased by the replies you're getting. However, when was the last time you took a phone call during an active domestic? When was the last time you did anything LEO related? There are people right here, on this forum, that are cops, dispatchers, in a security related field, etc., that deal with things like this everyday. You are getting some damn good replies here, but apparently, they're not the replies that you're looking for, therefore, you're resorting to slams.

Speaking as a member here, not a mod., because I'm involved in this thread, but maybe, just maybe, you should read the posting rules of the forum, and perhaps change the tone of your posts.

Mike

 

[Tez3]

Verbal Judo? sounds fun lol!
The "have a go hero" is feted in the newspapers and on the tv news and they are brave to step in but they are quite honestly a police officers nightmare.It is really commendable that a member of the public is brave enough to risk there life but sometimes it is a tragic waste of a good life when it would have been far better to call the police and allow them to deal with the situation. Sometimes doing the right thing is not always the easiest or most obvious thing.
As for not doing martial arts? Yeah of course we all sit here just being keyboard warriors doling out advice from books! I think the combined life and martial arts wisdom on this forum works out in hundreds of years rather than the few Stabpunch is demonstating.
If you were to 'defuse' the situation by using violence to your satisfaction what would stop the father going back into the house and taking his revenge out on his family. You would have escalated a situation the police could handle into a possible murder/siege scenario.
if you can get to the UK you are very welcome to do a seminar with me, you have a choice between traditional martial arts or MMA. The MMA one would be taken by Ian Freeman (UFC veteran who used to do the doors in Newcastle one of the UKs hardest cities) and my instructor who would also do the trad one. My instructor spent 23 years in the British Army special forces and is now a close protection officer as well as an MMA promoter/instructor. My martial arts aren't too shabby. If you can't get to the UK, I can arrange for you to train with Micheal Bisping who has just arrived in Las Vegas to fight in the next UFC. Nice guy, hard as nails!

 

[Lisa]

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[Tez3]

My offer to train with us open to all and wasn't being made disrespectfully to anyone! I really wish I could come and train with some of you, it would be great to see different styles (I've never come across a Kenpo club here) that aren't so common here! We have a young pro fighter we hope will get to UFC and when he does I'm coming across to the the States!
Back on track, being able to do martial arts doesn't mean we automatically are allowed to poke our noses in where we could actually do more harm than good. Walking away from a fight that can be avoided is a mature thing to do, it doesn't mean a person is scared. Most martial artists I know will put it on the line when they have to but it's a last result.

 

[Drac]

Back on track, being able to do martial arts doesn't mean we automatically are allowed to poke our noses in where we could actually do more harm than good. Walking away from a fight that can be avoided is a mature thing to do, it doesn't mean a person is scared. Most martial artists I know will put it on the line when they have to but it's a last result.

Very True...

 

[jks9199]

YES....NEVER get involved in domestics unless you see a neghibor on his front lawn beating his Wife, Son, Daughter..Stay on the phone with the dispatcher until the marked units arrive and give as MUCH information to the responding units and the dispatcher center as possible...

EXACTLY.

I AM a cop. I've had neighbors get into domestics. I've gotten directly involved exactly once. And that was merely to let the woman running from her boyfriend come into my house rather than return to hers while we awaited the cops -- whom I'd already called. EVERY other time (and there were, sadly, quite a few), I've simply called the police. They're in uniform. They've got all their tools available. And they have full authority. If someone's not going to get killed by your failing to intervene directly -- CALL THE COPS!

Domestics, especially, can turn very bad very, very fast. Especially if you stick your nose into the middle of it. Do you want the whole family that you're trying to "rescue" to decide they need to defend themselves against you?

 

[jks9199]

Originally Posted by stabpunch View Post
It might seem foreign to you guys but not everyone likes the cops rocking up to their house. Sometimes they like to find out who called the cops. This is a bad thing if they live next door.
Which is why responding units do not deluge that information..When I respond to a domestic and the offending party asks "Just who flipping called you??" I usually answer "That's not your concern!"

I usually said "I don't know... I just go where they send me."

Especially in domestics and other calls where retaliation is likely -- we don't say who called us. As a detective, I go to lengths to avoid going directly to the house that called if I have to do follow up on a case; I'll ask at a few other houses either before or after so that nobody can say "well, the detective went THERE!"

 

[jks9199]

Let me ask you guys what you would do in this scenario:

Your next door neighbour is having an argument with his son. You can hear the yelling escalate to the point where physical threats are being made and you hear the father say "I can't believe you just hit me". You go next door to investigate and knock on the front door, you are greated by one of the four sons. You are on a first name basis with his father, acquaintances, not necesarrily friends.

1. What items do you bring with you from home?
2. How do you approach this conversation with the 14 year old?
3. What are the environmental factors you consider?

Stabpunch...

I've just read this entire thread. It's clear from qoutes that either you or moderators have removed or edited some of your posts. What's left simply scares me silly. And it matches posts I've seen of yours elsewhere on MT.

You need a reality check. Martial arts training doesn't make you physically, morally or mentally superior to anyone, nor is it a license to get involved. If Batman were real -- he'd be hunted down and arrested, even if it took an entire SWAT unit. In the real world, the actions of comic book superheroes would only complicate and distract the police department's job. I have this terrifying image that you'll be walking down the street, see a bank robbery in progress, duck into a nearby phonebooth, and reappear in your gi/dobok/training uniform while shouting "HERE I COME TO SAVE THE DAY" and precipitate a hostage crisis. Then, afterwards, you'll look at the carnage, and just be absolutely stunned that the police aren't falling over themselves to thank you and beg your advice.

I can only hope that it's a result of miscommunication due to the limits of this electronic medium, and perhaps youthful exuberance.

In the scenario you posed here -- you have no business running over and sticking your nose in. There are folks paid to do that; they're called police, sheriffs, troopers and a few other names for law enforcement. They've got the tools, the training, and the EXPERIENCE to intervene in the safest way possible for everyone. Your job, unless you see someone in immediate danger of serious bodily harm and especially in a domestic assault, is simply to summon them. Even if there is someone in immediate danger -- you have to assess whether your direct intervention will make things safer, or simply add another victim. (You do realize that you could find yourself facing charges like assault & battery, malicious wounding, and false arrest -- or even worse -- based on jumping into the middle of something wrongly?)

 

[shesulsa]

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[bydand]

anyone here remember any of this?

Re: Defending the weak
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A lot of discussion goes on about self defense, but very often I have a completely different concern: being on guard not to defend myself, but others that may need it.
This is something any moral person should be doing... and not nearly enough people do. It was the source of the boy scout pledge to do a good deed every day - often made fun of, with skits about scouts helping elderly ladies across the street who didn't want to go - but a good moral grounding for any person. Too many children are not taught to look out for anyone but themselves.
And you better REALLY think about getting in the middle of a public domestic dispute, as these are THE most dangerous conflicts to become entangled in (just ask any LEO: one minute they are defending the "victim," the next minute they are defending themselves against the victim while trying to arrest the perp!).
Happens more often than you can imagine..Now if you see a female being beaten my a male husband or not on duty or not I'm stepping in..
Excerpt:
One dynamic brought forth was the Bystander Effect. This theory speculates that as the “number of bystanders increases, the likelihood of any one bystander helping another decreases.”
Too true...Someone always suffers because of someone elses inability to act..
Sad but true..`The kind of neigborhood I grew up in has faded into history..You knoe everybody and they knew YOU..If you messed up as a kid you got disciplined by one of the neighbors AND THEN you got it again when you got home...
That is so true! I remember it being that way when I was a kid. It certainly is far from that today
That is so true! I remember it being that way when I was a kid. It certainly is far from that today.
You said it... Now we respond to calls because some neighbor YELLED at another neighbor's children...
Come on over to my little town. Still like it was 30 or more years ago around here. Usually that is a bad thing because it means those involved haven't been open to change or growth, but when it comes to neighborhoods, it is the best thing that could happen. Sure, it is a small dumpy little place, but the value of your neighbors are still held in high regard
Dealt with plenty of it before, though. Along with the "he parked on the street in front of my house!" or "their tree dropped leaves into my yard!" and "their making too much noise..."
(Has it ever occurred to some of these folks to knock on their neighbors door and ask them to turn it down or move the car or whatever?)
All of this reminded me of a great example of someone not calling (because they didn't want to bother the police!).

Yes Troll, I remember these. They were dealing with nothing like the scenario you put forth, so they are totally out of context for this discussion. You did a horrible job quoting them so it makes it difficult to read, but as one of those who wrote some of the posts, I would ask you to sit back and really re-read the thread you pulled these from. If I remember right most of the above was from myself and Drac talking about neighborhoods and the changes that have occured over the years, NOT about running over to the neighbors house and putting ourselves in the middle of something we don't know what is going on. Whenever the self-serving, ego-driven protion of your personality wants to get some real good advice about what to do during a domestic dispute, re-read THIS thread, there is some solid advice from members with common sense, comments from active LEO's, comments from people who have "been there, done that". I have no idea how old you really are, and personally, I could care less; but as a member of this forum I would ask you to stop acting like my 4 year-old son when he thinks one of his older brothers is teasing him. You recived great advice that can and will keep your skin whole, if not hole free. Sticking your nose in the situation you put forth can very well get you shot, stabbed, beaten, maimed, or a combination of these outcomes. Sure not 100% of the time, but even a Vegas gambler wouldn't bet on the odds of a favorable outcome of the actions you describe. And next time you pull a quote from something I posted, make sure it has to do with the same situation you are trying to prove. I do remember what I write and why, and I will call you (or anybody) on things taken out of context.

Last from me on this issue, you can't force someone to learn if they don't want to, and you cannot argue with a fool. Both of which is happening here I'm afraid.