Scenario/Role play

[stabpunch]

Let me ask you guys what you would do in this scenario:

Your next door neighbour is having an argument with his son. You can hear the yelling escalate to the point where physical threats are being made and you hear the father say "I can't believe you just hit me". You go next door to investigate and knock on the front door, you are greated by one of the four sons. You are on a first name basis with his father, acquaintances, not necesarrily friends.

1. What items do you bring with you from home?
2. How do you approach this conversation with the 14 year old?
3. What are the environmental factors you consider?

 

[Bigshadow]

Let me ask you guys what you would do in this scenario:

Either stay out of it or call 911. Going over there is really not a wise thing to do.

 

[Kacey]

Either stay out of it or call 911. Going over there is really not a wise thing to do.

I agree. Putting yourself in danger will not help this situation at all. Actually, other than calling 911, I'd stay out of it altogether.

 

[stabpunch]

fair enough, however that isn't the scenario presented as you are already there.

 

[stabpunch]

the scenario states "You go next door to investigate and knock on the front door, you are greated by one of the four sons". Now in the scenario what would you do. Sure my better judgement would be not to attend. As this is imaginary i am not asking what you would do prior to arriving my questions are numbered 1, 2 and three.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

Either stay out of it or call 911. Going over there is really not a wise thing to do.

Ditto....

Scenario Reply: Leave the neighbors house and call 911.

 

[Bigshadow]

fair enough, however that isn't the scenario presented as you are already there.

That is when you say... "Oops, sorry to disturb you... I will come back later." Then turn around and get your *** out of there. Chances are the interruption may calm things a bit, but doing anything more than that could be dangerous.

 

[stabpunch]

ok ok. so 911 get you on the phone and respond to your call. "is that the phoney martial artist who trains just to be a poser and doesn't want to actually help anyone?" the 911 operator hangs up 'click'. Now as you know you aren't a poser and you front the house, when you knock on the door and are greeted by a 14 year old.

1.What did you bring
2. How do you approach the conversation.
3.What environmental factors are you concerned with?

 

[Blotan Hunka]

What are you 14-16 yo? Being a martial artist doent make you superman or the police. You heard a domestic incident, you call 911.

1. I bring my cell phone
2. I converse with the dispatcher and tell him what I heard
3. Im concerned that Im not in the street so the cop car doesn't run me over.

 

[stabpunch]

Nice. What about the fact that the people in the house see you and know you've reported them to the police?

 

[Bigshadow]

Nice. What about the fact that the people in the house see you and know you've reported them to the police?

This is one of those questions like "What technique do I use AFTER I have the knife buried in my chest".

 

[stabpunch]

Troll? because my thread has led to conversation in which the great ones are questioned?

So you're saying, study and train martial arts, but don't ever put yourself in a position to help another person with what you've learned? Just call the cops because it's their job...

You know what a cop would probably agree that you shouldn't get involved, yet if you de-escalate a minor incident they'd probably be happy that they could attend more serious matters. Sure you aren't law enforcement, but where is the harm in benefitting a situation with skills and confidence you have learned through martial arts? (Strategic negotiation, environmental awareness and worst case physical contact).

As a martial artist if you cannot converse in a pressure situation you are likely to escalate the situation at hand.

 

[dubljay]

We are not superheroes. ANY martial artist who thinks they are is delusional at best.

Let me take a stab at a few things here.

1) Probability of a positive outcome .01% you do intervene. Physical violence ensues between you and one of the neighbors. This is the ultimate lose lose situation. As any LEO can attest domestic disturbances are the worst position to be in. Making the wild assumption (and wild it is) that you have entered into a physical altercation with one of the neighbors the other family members will just stand there and watch. (Delusion at its best most likely the one you are trying to 'protect' will fight you). The immediate situation has been diffused. The underlying issue remains untouched and likely to flare again in the (not so distant) future.

2) Probability of a positive outcome 1-5% you do intervene. There is no physical violence; the police are left out of the loop. The immediate situation is diffused, again most likely leaving the underlying cause untouched.

In either situation when you put yourself in the midst of things the likelihood of having any sort of positive outcome is very very slim. Sure perhaps you prevented the immediate situation from getting too out of control (not likely if you walk in with your chest puffed out trying to play the brash hero)

Discretion is the better part of valor. You want to be a Good Samaritan and help these people? Do not become personally or physically involved in the situation. Call the police. This has benefits that extend far beyond the immediate situation. Like it or not you are not an authority figure to your neighbors. So what, you practice martial arts, and you can whip your weight in wild cats. That gives you no moral authority over others. Police represent the moral (majority) authority of the collective society, to whom we are ultimately responsible. That whom includes you, me, your neighbors, and your grandma too. Given this, having the police involved ensures certain things. First and foremost there is a record established of this behavior which is important if or when there are recurring incidents. Second this opens the possibility that the state will force some sort of counseling to get to the underlying issues which provides increases the safety of those involved for years to come instead of minutes, hours or days. Furthermore getting the police involved allows for the possibility that there already exists a pattern and given that background information police can assess the proper means of handling the situation.

Given the context of your scenario I have made the assumption that no one is in immediate life threatening danger (i.e. being stabbed or beaten severely ect.) If indeed the one or more of the parties is in immediate danger of grievous bodily harm, then by all means risk your own life to save another, that is a personal choice, however the prudent thing to do is to still call 911.


My advice: Dont ask 'what if' too often, and leave your day-dreaming safely in fantasy land.



Okay time for me to get down off my soap box

 

[bydand]

I mentioned troll because you are trying to force your own opinion/agenda down everybodys necks without reguard to honestly posted answers to your original question. Are you trained in Law enforcement issues as well as your MA training? I'm not and a domestic dispute is, at best, a tricky situation that unskilled people have the ability to escalate while trying to help. Sure you MIGHT de-escalate the situation, or you may push the individuals over the edge. How many times have I heard a LEO friend or family member say that the person they are there to help has turned on them? the answer to that question is: Way too many to think my MA training will de-escalate that type of situation. Part of being a MA is knowing the proper time and place to utilize the skills you have obtained through years of training. The scenario you presented is not such a time OR place.

AS for questioning the "great ones" as you call them, shoot I'd call into question one of their posts if I felt they had given bad advice or mis-leading information. Nobody is higher than anybody else on this forum, we all take each other with respect given to Martial Artists, by Martial Artists no matter their post count, or reputation bars from what I have seen.

 

[stabpunch]

What are you 14-16 yo? Being a martial artist doent make you superman or the police. You heard a domestic incident, you call 911.

1. I bring my cell phone
2. I converse with the dispatcher and tell him what I heard
3. Im concerned that Im not in the street so the cop car doesn't run me over.

this has worked in the past for me except the dispatcher could hear the disturbance over my phone. How close are you willing to get to the fire to help pull the person out?

I am no superhero my powers are only observation and reporting as a citizen. However in doing so you can become the focus of the angry bad people because you're calling the cops. Sometimes if you don't call the cops and have the balls to deal with a situation yourself you can gain respect from the people you help. It is dangeerous it is not recommended but is is the way i see it.

Making some one do counselling is futile unless they are willing to accept the information and see the need for change.

It might seem foreign to you guys but not everyone likes the cops rocking up to their house. Sometimes they like to find out who called the cops. This is a bad thing if they live next door.

 

[MJS]

Let me ask you guys what you would do in this scenario:

Your next door neighbour is having an argument with his son. You can hear the yelling escalate to the point where physical threats are being made and you hear the father say "I can't believe you just hit me". You go next door to investigate and knock on the front door, you are greated by one of the four sons. You are on a first name basis with his father, acquaintances, not necesarrily friends.

1. What items do you bring with you from home?
2. How do you approach this conversation with the 14 year old?
3. What are the environmental factors you consider?

Well, for me, I would never go next door. Why? I don't know what I may get myself into when I get there. Do I know for a fact that there are no weapons in the house? I could get blown away. Can I know for a fact that the people involved in the domestic will not turn on me? Now, rather than attempting to aid the son, I could now have 5 people to deal with..the 4 sons and the father. See where I'm going with this?

Instead, I'd call the police. Its not my job to mediate their issues, its the job of the police. Give them as much detail as you possibly can. Feeding them info. is more of a help to them, than going over youself. The more you can tell them, the better prepared they'll be upon arriving at the house.

Mike

 

[MJS]

ok ok. so 911 get you on the phone and respond to your call. "is that the phoney martial artist who trains just to be a poser and doesn't want to actually help anyone?" the 911 operator hangs up 'click'. Now as you know you aren't a poser and you front the house, when you knock on the door and are greeted by a 14 year old.

1.What did you bring
2. How do you approach the conversation.
3.What environmental factors are you concerned with?

So because we train in the MAs, we're supposed be be Supermen and run around town trying to save everyone? Sorry, but by calling the police I am in fact helping someone.

 

[MJS]

Nice. What about the fact that the people in the house see you and know you've reported them to the police?

I'm assuming you're talking about the chance of retaliation? Well, you have 2 choices:

1) If that is a concern then simply don't get involved.

2) If that isn't a concern, then call the police and if something happens at a later time, you deal with that accordingly.

Mike

 

[MJS]

Troll? because my thread has led to conversation in which the great ones are questioned?

So you're saying, study and train martial arts, but don't ever put yourself in a position to help another person with what you've learned? Just call the cops because it's their job...

You know what a cop would probably agree that you shouldn't get involved, yet if you de-escalate a minor incident they'd probably be happy that they could attend more serious matters. Sure you aren't law enforcement, but where is the harm in benefitting a situation with skills and confidence you have learned through martial arts? (Strategic negotiation, environmental awareness and worst case physical contact).

As a martial artist if you cannot converse in a pressure situation you are likely to escalate the situation at hand.

Common sense still needs to be used! Again, we're not Supermen! Assessing the situation is something that should always be done, no matter if its dealing with helping someone else or yourself. What makes you so sure you're capable of de-escalating the situation? You could put yourslef in a position where you're going to be thinking, "Oh ****!! What did I just get myself into here?!?!"

 

[MJS]

this has worked in the past for me except the dispatcher could hear the disturbance over my phone. How close are you willing to get to the fire to help pull the person out?

Some domestic calls that I've taken on the phone have had hardly any info. other than them saying that they hear 2 people screaming. They don't know any names, if there are any weapons...nothing. The best I can do from there, is check to see if there is any history, ie: past domestics, etc., at that house. The police are much better prepared than I to handle things like this.

I am no superhero my powers are only observation and reporting as a citizen. However in doing so you can become the focus of the angry bad people because you're calling the cops. Sometimes if you don't call the cops and have the balls to deal with a situation yourself you can gain respect from the people you help. It is dangeerous it is not recommended but is is the way i see it.

Well, to each his own I guess. I guess what needs to be asked is, are you willing to accept and deal with the various results? If you went to the house, armed with a gun and ended up shooting and killing the father because he came at you, are you willing to deal with that outcome? I'm sure one of the many questions the judge and lawyers would be asking is, "Why did you shoot the guy? Were you not faced with any other options?" "Why did you go to the house rather than calling the police?" Its really no different than defending yourself from someone on the street. Do you not think that if this guys sues you, which he just may do, that you will not be asked if there was anything else you could've done, rather than resort to physical violence? These are all things to take into consideration.

As I said above...to each his own. I'm simply telling you what I would do. If you choose to act differently, thats fine, again, as long as you're willing to accept the outcome.

Mike