Really bummed about my recent test

Discussion in 'Tae-Kwon-Do' started by skribs, Oct 12, 2020.

  1. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    I agree that they have nothing to do with each other. I think it would be really good for you to give it a shot. What I don't know is whether your ego will allow you to be really bad at something for a really long time, with constant physical reminders of how bad you are. As I said before, some people are better for it. Most can't take it and quit, often telling anyone who will listen that they could have done it but for this or that.

    My impression of you is that you spend a lot of time telling yourself how great you are at things. Like how great you are at being humble. ;)
     
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  2. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Who walked all over you? You passed the damn test and got your belt! Is that lost on you? So you got a C and you wanted an AA++. So what? Nobody cares but you. It is meaningless. Maybe you aren’t as good as you think you are. I’ll say this much: you’ve got a really f-ed up attitude.
     
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  3. Jaeimseu

    Jaeimseu 2nd Black Belt

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  4. skribs

    skribs Grandmaster

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    That's because my Taekwondo curriculum is something I'm great at. I've trained hadd to get there. I rank myself as mediocre at Hapkido, mediocre at TKD sparring, and horrible at guitar. I was so bad at riding a motorcycle I gave up halfway through the class. There are things I'm bad at. This isn't one.

    He said he wanted to fail me, but didn't because he didn't want to waste time with retesting. So I'm upset because if this happens again, I'll fail. And since it isn't my fault (if he'sseeing mistakes I didn't make), there's nothing I can do to prevent it.
     
  5. isshinryuronin

    isshinryuronin Brown Belt

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    Good that you are at peace with your situation. The only problem is how you are learning more? Are there skills and knowledge that are taught only after 2nd or 3rd dan in your system? Or have you found a way to train with more senior people that will teach more advanced material with you?

    Self training takes know how and a lot of dedication, as well as being able to stay objective when self evaluating. Seems like you are doing well on all fronts. Sooner or later, someone well above you in rank will take notice and recognize your achievements in an official manner.

    You can also just promote yourself to 7th degree. For $50 I can send you a nice certificate, a secret decoder ring and some gold stripes to dress up your belt to prove how awesome you are .
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
  6. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    Possibility 3... you made more errors than you are aware of. That couldn't be, could it?

    If this is enough to make you quit... than quit complaining and quit.

    The worst thing my instructor can do is stop correcting me. If he does, it doesn't mean I have nothing more to learn... it means I am no longer worth correcting.
     
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  7. wab25

    wab25 2nd Black Belt

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    Excellent questions. In our system, the last test for new content comes at 4th dan. I have been taught all the techniques I need for 2nd dan and am ready to test... 3rd and 4th, not so much.

    So, how am I learning more? First off, there is a difference between memorizing a kata and studying a kata. So, I have been putting a ton of time into the techniques I know and have been doing "well" for years... and refining and understanding them more. I also try putting them into different combinations and into different situations. I fail a lot, I explore a lot and I learn things as I go.

    Further, martial arts is bigger than any one singular art. However, most arts talk about the same ideas and same principles. The different arts just use different vocabulary to do so. So, I cross train. I am working on Shotokan Karate, Aikido, and Daito Ryu. I spent a few years (2-3) studying bjj and mma. While in Karate class... I do Karate. When I leave, I take what I learned in Karate and see where it directly fits in Danzan Ryu. Then I look at the principles being taught in the movements and kata and then compare and add to the Danzan Ryu version of those same principles. I then look at what principles Karate teaches when presenting things in certain situations and compare what Danzan Ryu presents in similar situations. I add the bits from Karate to Danzan Ryu and the bits from Danzan Ryu to Karate. When I go show off my new found knowledge and wisdom to the Danzan Ryu guys... they say "Glad you finally figured that out, we have been telling you that for years." Funny thing is, I get the same response from the Karate guys as well. Repeat with the other arts I have and am cross training with. The key here is: "When in Karate, do Kararte." The mixing of arts happens on the students time, not during class.

    I try.
     
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  8. skribs

    skribs Grandmaster

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    It's possible I made more than I'm aware of. Most of the ones he told me aren't possible as far as I can tell.
     
  9. EdwardA

    EdwardA Green Belt

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    I don't know. We only had white sash, which took a few months to get. Black sash, that took years, and Red sash that you had to go to Hong Kong to test for.

    It's a question of motivation vs keeping students I think, but I'm guessing.
     
  10. dvcochran

    dvcochran Grandmaster

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    I read through the entire thread hoping to glean everything I could before responding. So to start, I am going to say this thread has started from a very poor position.

    We have had a lot of back and forth. That is a good thing. You use this medium to air things out. Not explicitly a bad thing. Bashing your instructor or program when it is conditional (like you have are are doing right now) is Always a bad thing.

    You have been thorough and forthright about your plan. However, this is about as poor a major reason for wanting to advance as I can think of. Not at all what learning MA's is about. I get it. You like teaching and want to open a school. We cannot count the people who have been there. It could be the degree of freedom you feel on a forum to express candor and that we cannot really gauge your feelings or intent because we are not having a face to face.

    See, first you say "you Know you did not make the mistake". Then you say "maybe I misremember".
    I hope you hear this loudly. "Pride comes before the fall." You are living this Large. Over and over through this thread you are saying "I know I made mistakes But..." You have never said whether your instructor is Korean or if there are deep ties there. I can tell you Much of what you are describing is Korean teaching 101. I am going to leave that right there for now.


    If, if, if, if, if. You are pissed because even the was you were critiqued is not the way You think it should be. C'mon man. Childish.

    Rehash of above comments. Desperately holding on to a narrative you cannot change and it has pissed you off. It happens to everyone in every walk of life. But this is a very different environment. One where we are supposed to be learning how to HANDLE adversity, regardless of Where or How it comes at use. You are very much on the rear teat right now when it comes to this lesson; and I would say pretty far behind the curve given your station.

    That just sounds like a rich(er) mans cop out. Private classes I can understand within confines. Private testing, never. I will leave that right there as well.

    Yea, you are.

    You can have that response, it is an open forum. But I hope you understand you are getting what you have asked for.
    And yes, damn are you being arrogant. I don't know if I have ever heard someone need confirmation and ingratiation so much before. You seriously need to learn how to self reflect and use my next comment the correct way; Know where your bread is buttered.

    That math is way off and that is straight up jump testing. Anyone who does it that way is subject of not being qualified for the next rank. Let me say it the way I heard it. You just tested for 3rd Dan (let's say today). And you just said you will test for 4th Dan in one hear and about 2 months. Do you see what that says and understand there is a bigger picture that is damaging here?
    Again, not knowing the instructors background but this is straight up psychological training 101. Slow your roll and catch up. There has been a consistent pattern with you that is compounding. I know you will throw up the 'blank slate' but you are missing a lot right now.

    Yes and yes.
    I tried quoting a few other comments but they did not come through and I do not have time to go back.
    You mentioned you have been using video for practice. A good tool if and Only if the video matches up with your instructor. Nothing else really matters at testing time. Why would it? A fair and mature conversation would be to ask your instructor why the difference some time after class. Our GM is very honest about how/why he changes the Taeguek poomsae. Something I appreciate.
    Skribs, you have talked at length about leaving. Honestly, saying it as a threat more than a logical thought process. You finally admitted something in this thread I have suspected for some time. You are in a very, very, closed loop school and if it is not a Tiger Rock school it is using that model. Not a good thing for a number of reasons which I have mentioned several times before. Think of it this way. You are essentially saying you just good enough to pass a test in an environment that uses zero external forces or feedback. So how valuable is that test? The answer is completely up to you. You are the one who has had your testing in fast forward to reach a number. You are the one using external approval as the only measure of success. You are the one who, at the same time, is dissatisfied with your training. You are the one who, no matter what critique you receive, you cannot or do not use it constructively.
    It is time you do some Major humbling, reflect on where you Really are in Your training and quit looking only for the external feedback you agree with. I was not there but have graded enough testings in our schools, other TKD schools and even other style schools to know I have seen what you experienced. There is more going on than what you think. You want to call that BS and keep trying to apply only the tangible logic you understand, so be it. But you really need to press the pause button before it just comes crashing down on you. You are headed for a bad breakup with your school and instructor. A good/bad thing? With very, very few exception a Bad thing. And I have heard enough evidence to believe the exceptions do not exist.
    I am sure this post is ripe with typo's. My apologies.
     
  11. skribs

    skribs Grandmaster

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    @dvcochran I got my 3rd dan in August 2018. I was testing for 3rd dan, 3rd gup (think of it like black belt v3.3). My next test is 4th gup, which will probably be in April, and then 4th Dan after that (next December).

    One of the big reasons I want to open my own school is because of the frustrating things my Master does. If that's just him, or if that's "Korean Teaching 101", it doesn't matter. Most of the time, it's just something I can shrug off. But in this case, it's not.

    Im saying he listed over a dozen things I messed up. Half of them I'm certain I didn't. The other half, Im pretty sure I didn't. Maybe one or two, but not all of them. I'd have noticed if something was off. I have a very good memory and attention to detail. I was constantly checking myself through the test, second-guessing every move, thinking consciously about corrections he's given me recently, focusing on areas I've made mistakes in the past.

    So of the 12 glaring mistakes he said I made, I can write 6 of them off right off the bat. The other 6 I'm 95% sure I did each of them right. Which means I'm 99.999998% sure I didn't mess up all 6.

    The reason I'm less sure on those (95% instead of 100%) is ironically because I'm more confident in those. I wasn't giving those as much critical attention because I was confident. I haven't been given corrections recently, and I haven't struggled to perform those recently. It's like driving to work: I don't remember most of my drives, because I'm basically on autopilot.
     
  12. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    Here's a case in point. If you had stuck out the class, you either would have passed or failed. If you passed, great. If you failed, you could take the class again. Point being, I'm pretty sure you could learn to ride a motorcycle, but you quit even before you'd finished the class. It was hard, and you weren't getting the immediate results you expected, and so you quit.

    Why would BJJ be any different?
     
  13. skribs

    skribs Grandmaster

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    I also suck at guitar, and I've spent years in lessons.
     
  14. dvcochran

    dvcochran Grandmaster

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    We do not do the step testing's, at all. When you are ready, you are ready, regardless of time past the minimum. I will leave that right there.
    It is pretty cut and dried that the clock starts ticking on your next text from the time you get your current belt/rank (when you receive your KKW certificate) based on years of current Dan rank. And there are several conditions above and beyond time (like concurrent training, and Much more). I know for fact our GM has/will hold a certificate if it is warranted. Sorry buy you are very much in fast forward chasing rank, for various reasons. I cannot say I follow your logic on why but it is what it is it and I hope I can help in some way. I cannot say I have ever seen a test or tester who was so statistically driven. That is just not what it is about. I have to ask, what are you making your comparison(s) against? I feel you need to reevaluate what you are using for your basis of comparison.
    I enjoy our banter and only coming from a position of critical help. Believe me when I say it is Not about some measurable dynamic on how "perfect" you do a form or even a drill at your station. Especially when you are an instructor in a large school, which you are. There is another gear you are missing, and honestly I feel you are stripping. I hope that makes sense.
    Slow your roll.
     
  15. skribs

    skribs Grandmaster

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    I'm not in fast forward. Kukkiwon requirement is 3 years from 3rd Dan to 4th Dan. It will have been 3 years and 4 months before I test. I am going to meet all of my Master's requirements of things to learn, hours to teach, classes to take, etc.
     
  16. dvcochran

    dvcochran Grandmaster

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    Skribs, you have said this over and over; that you Know you did not mess up or did not do X, which I do not doubt is true. Here is the tough part. You Know you did not mess up according to you preconceived and pre-concluded notions. For your sake what I hope is happening is your instructor pushing you to retrain, your thinking or perspective in some ways. That is the simplest way I can say it. Since we were not there it is a good amount of speculation but assuming you are accurate in retelling the event, which I expect you are, and assuming your instructor wasn't being a dxxk, and I will give him the benefit of a doubt since I do not know him, this is a clear, evident, and reasonable explanation.
    Question on testing time; does your clock start ticking from the date of last testing?
     
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  17. skribs

    skribs Grandmaster

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    The clock starts from 3rd dan. The intermediate tests are to help break down the curriculum into more manageable pieces.

    If his advice was related to things I could improve, that would make sense. If he didn't like my stances, my power, how high my kicks werez the angle of my foot, etc. But his advice is that I just did the wrong technique. I can't do anything with that if I did the right technique in the first place.
     
  18. Raistlin

    Raistlin White Belt

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    It sounds to me like you no longer respect your teacher. You seem pretty convinced that you are right and your instructor is wrong. You mentioned that you want to quit after getting your 4th Dan so you can start your own school and teach things your way. It's fine to have your own style of doing things, my style is certainly different from my instructors style, but don't make the mistake of thinking you know it all. Find yourself someone you respect to mentor you. The learning should never stop. Don't forget where you came from. You might have outgrown your current instructor (it happens) but for you to stick with him all the way to 3rd Dan must mean he has brought a lot of benefit to your martial arts journey.

    I personally have trained with my instructor for over 30 years. I have my own school and have students and student's students that run their own schools as well. I now have many mentors that I go to to continue my training as my long-time instructor has taught me most of what he knows (although I can still learn from his experience), however he still holds a place of honor in my school for teaching me so much for so many years. He has earned that respect for the years of dedication to my learning and training. I can't imagine throwing him to the curb just because I feel he has nothing left to offer me. Maybe there is more to this?
     
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  19. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    My teacher, and his teacher who is our system's chief instructor, have both taught the same thing differently on many occasions. I'm probably guilty of it, too. I simply see that as now having more than one way of doing it. And I do it the way they want at the moment.

    You're locked in on the idea that you couldn't have been wrong. In my life experience... most times people are stubbornly sure they didn't do something like that, they cannot hear or perceive if they did. The old story of the full teacup comes to mind.
     
  20. dvcochran

    dvcochran Grandmaster

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    To be clear on the time between testing, for 3rd to 4th Dan it is 3 years from the date of your 3 Dan testing?123
     

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