Re No Peace in the Holy Land

elder999

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If you read that statement as a response to my post.....even you will realize it's a dodge of the point I made.

What point was that, exactly? :rolleyes:

You seem to be more impressed with the cleverness of your posts than they were worthy of......especially since you've now resorted to evidence of 'bragging' as opposed to empirical evidence of how much money in aid is being spent, when confronted by Israel's neighbor, Egypt, getting a comparable amount from us.....but I guess if you add enough smilies it'll APPEAR as though you have an argument. ;)

Actually, no.

Israel receives more military aid from the U.S. than any other country in the world-note that I didn't say that the U.S. sells Israel more arms than any other country, I said that Israel receives more military aid. The bulk of the foreign aid we send to Israel is, in fact, in the form of armaments, or money to purchase them.This is unique, especially when one considers the GDP of Israel, it's per capita income, and exactly which products that Israel exports to the U.S.-in other words, when one considers the economic benefits the U.S. consumer sees from Israel......since, as Tez3 has posted, we're all about money here........:lol:

Another unique thing is that-well, take this year. When the budget is formulated and passed, whatever form it takes, it will contain military aid to Israel. No big deal: all foreign aid typically represents about 1% of the U.S. budget. Considered this way, even in the current economic climate, the massive amount of military aid the U.S. gives to Israel is a pittance. In any case, Israel typically receives all these funds within 30 days of the budget being set-another unique factor in this relationship. No other nation gets paid out their U.S. foreign aid in this manner.

And of course, there's the way the aid is structured: typically, Israel is committed to spending at least 50% of the money we give them on U.S. produced defense products. I say typically, because there are a bunch of loopholes now that defense contractors like Lockheed Martin (just as an example) have outsourced so much of their production. In any case, this constitutes a form of corporate welfare that is another unique factor in our relationship. As Tez3 pointed out, we are selling some $22-odd billion dollars worth of arms to Saudi Arabia, and, just as also pointed out, we sell arms to all kinds of people around the world, more than any one else. No where, though, not to Jordan, Argentina, Saudi Arabia, Taiwan, Japan (there's another "interesting" story), do we actually give money to the country to buy stuff from us-except for Israel. In return, what we get is a form of corporate welfare-and we get our hardware field tested, sooner or later.....:lfao:

I don't think that Israel is a "unique evil" in the world. I don't even think that Israel is "evil," if such a thing as an entire country being evil is possible. Hell, I like Israel, most Israelis I've met, and I usually admire their country's gutsiness and determination in the face of all their neighbors unquestionably wanting them gone.

I just question the benefit of the U.S.'s unique relationship with them to the U.S.

sgtmac46 said:
Let the STRAW GRASPING begin in the sad attempt to paint Israel as some unique evil in the world! :lfao:

sgtmac46 said:
You might like the CLINTON ADMINISTRATION gave to the Chinese?

Now who's grasping at STRAWS? :lfao:

(think I'll come up with a Clinton Administration corollary to Godwin's law as well....:lfao:) That's not to say I'm discounting the validity of your accusation. Having been witness to the W-88 debacle, as well as some of the after effects of his transfer of technology licensing to the Department of Commerce, I could probably only agree with you-but it's hardly relevant.

Meanwhile, back on topic, in other, more relevant news:

Israeli troops, militants battle in Gaza suburb

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip – Israeli troops battled Palestinian gunmen in a suburb of Gaza City Sunday in one of the fiercest ground battles so far as Israel's military inched toward Gaza's population centers and residents braced for an expansion of the offensive.
The fighting in the Sheikh Ajleen neighborhood erupted before dawn and continued through the morning as Israeli infantrymen and tanks advanced toward Gaza City and its approximately 400,000 residents, Palestinian witnesses said. Hamas and the smaller militant group Islamic Jihad said they ambushed the Israelis, leading to some of the heaviest fighting since Israel sent ground forces into the coastal territory on Jan. 3.

And, in another bit of Middle Eastern insanity:

Iran disputes report on suicide volunteers

TEHRAN, Iran – Iranian officials on Saturday strongly disputed media reports that Iran's top leader Ayatollah Ali Khameini has banned volunteers from leaving the country to carry out suicide bombings against Israel and stressed that the supreme leader meant only that practical obstacles remained for such attackers to get to Gaza.

The officials said The Associated Press misinterpreted Khamenei's comments when he said Thursday that "our hands are tied in this arena." The AP also quoted Khamenei as saying that Iran would assist the militant group Hamas, which is fighting Israel, in other ways.

The Iranian officials said Khamenei's words should not have been interpreted as a ban on such volunteers, but meant that any Iranians would have great practical difficulty in reaching Gaza because of Israel's offensive. The report was used by some Arab television stations.

....just to point out one of the real "evils" of the region.....in keeping with the title of the thread, it seems to me that no one wants peace in the Holy Land.
 
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Tez3

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No, I don't know who David Duke is but he's seen as representing America outside America I'm afraid.
 

elder999

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No, I don't know who David Duke is but he's seen as representing America outside America I'm afraid.

Well, ya know who Martyn Gilleard is, dontcha?

It's rather like seeing him as "representing Britain outside of Britain," I'm afraid or saying that Yigal Amir represents Israel. Though, admittedly, David Duke has a larger audience here, and confines his inclinations to the media, and seeking public office, on occasion.

In any case, he and I surely in agreement on one thing:

He certainly doesn't represent me..:lfao:
 

Tez3

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Well, ya know who Martyn Gilleard is, dontcha?

It's rather like seeing him as "representing Britain outside of Britain," I'm afraid. Though, admittedly, David Duke has a larger audience here, and confines his inclinations to the media, and seeking public office, on occasion.

In any case, he and I surely in agreement on one thing:

He certainly doesn't represent me..:lfao:

Sorry I don't. Don't forget though with people like this it's the sqeaky wheel that gets the attention.
 

elder999

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Meanwhile, back on topic:

Israeli troops meet Hamas resistance deep in Gaza
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip – Israeli troops made their deepest advance into the Gaza Strip's most heavily populated area on Sunday, encountering increasingly fierce resistance from Islamic Hamas fighters as they warned civilians to stay clear of the battle zone.
Speaking to his Cabinet, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said the country "is nearing" its goals, but that the offensive will continue despite global calls for a cease-fire, led by the U.N. Security Council.
Israel warned Gaza's 1.4 million residents on Saturday that it plans to escalate a devastating air and ground assault that already has killed more than 800 Palestinians. Israel launched the offensive on Dec. 27 to halt years of Palestinian rocket attacks on its southern towns.
Egypt has been trying to broker a truce. Germany's foreign minister was in Israel on Sunday to promote the U.N. proposal, and Israel planned to send a senior defense official to Egypt later in the week. U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon plans to travel to the region this week.

and, in a related development:

Bush reportedly rejected Israeli plea to raid Iran

WASHINGTON – President George W. Bush rejected a plea from Israel last year to help it raid Iran's main nuclear complex, opting instead to authorize a new U.S. covert action aimed at sabotaging Iran's suspected nuclear weapons program, The New York Times reported.
Israel's request was for specialized bunker-busting bombs that it wanted for an attack that tentatively involved flying over Iraq to reach Iran's major nuclear complex at Natanz, where the country's only known uranium enrichment plant is located, the Times reported Saturday in its online edition. The White House deflected requests for the bombs and flyover but said it would improve intelligence-sharing with Israel on covert U.S. efforts to sabotage Iran's nuclear program
 

elder999

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And, in another related development:


Rights group: Israel uses incendiary bombs in Gaza


JERUSALEM – Human Rights Watch said Sunday that Israel's military has fired artillery shells with the incendiary agent white phosphorus into Gaza and a doctor there said the chemical was suspected in the case of 10 burn victims who had skin peeling off their faces and bodies.

Researchers in Israel from the rights group witnessed hours of artillery bombardments that sent trails of burning smoke indicating white phosphorus over the Jebaliya refugee camp in northern Gaza. But they could not confirm injuries on the ground because they have been barred from entering the territory.

The chief doctor at Nasser Hospital in southern Gaza said he treated several victims there with serious burns that might have been caused by phosphorus. He said, however, that he did not have the resources or expertise to say with certainty what caused the injuries.

The substance can cause serious burns if it touches the skin and can spark fires on the ground, the rights group said in a written statement calling on Israel not to use it in crowded areas of Gaza.

Military spokeswoman Maj. Avital Leibovich refused to comment directly on whether Israel was using phosphorus, but said the army was "using its munitions in accordance with international law."
 

Empty Hands

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No, I don't know who David Duke is but he's seen as representing America outside America I'm afraid.

If you don't know who he is, how do you know that he is seen as representing America?

Anyways, anyone who thinks so is foolish. Duke is widely regarded as what he is, a racist neo-nazi and former Klan member. If someone outside America doesn't take the trouble to find that out, then they might as well believe that any kook with a website represents America. If only our government took their cues from the Timecube guy...
 

Tez3

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If you don't know who he is, how do you know that he is seen as representing America?

Anyways, anyone who thinks so is foolish. Duke is widely regarded as what he is, a racist neo-nazi and former Klan member. If someone outside America doesn't take the trouble to find that out, then they might as well believe that any kook with a website represents America. If only our government took their cues from the Timecube guy...

He's been on the television here and in the media as a 'talking head' giving 'expert' views on the American elections. He is being accorded status as a serious American politician in several European countries.
 

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He's been on the television here and in the media as a 'talking head' giving 'expert' views on the American elections. He is being accorded status as a serious American politician in several European countries.

That's because he opposed the War on Terror (on grounds that 9/11 was perpetrated by Mossad) and Israel's excursion into Lebanon. Sometimes, having the 'correct' politics can be the difference between being seen as a racist nutjob and being voted, say, the senator from West Virginia.
 

Tez3

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I Imagine it's like the Paul Burrell (the late Princess of Wales' butler) who is making a fortune in America with all his stories about the Royal Household etc. The truth is vastly differnt and he's actually hated here for the damage he's caused. However people in the American media seem to have taken him at his word, he's a very good self publicist.
 

CoryKS

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I Imagine it's like the Paul Burrell (the late Princess of Wales' butler) who is making a fortune in America with all his stories about the Royal Household etc. The truth is vastly differnt and he's actually hated here for the damage he's caused. However people in the American media seem to have taken him at his word, he's a very good self publicist.

Exactly. I suspect that Duke's message was rather well received in the European media, and his status was elevated accordingly.
 

CoryKS

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BTW, Mark Steyn had a good article today. But then, he usually does.

The 'oldest hatred' lives, from Gaza to Florida.

Once upon a time on the Continent, Jews were hated as rootless cosmopolitan figures who owed no national allegiance. So they became a conventional nation state, and now they're hated for that. And, if Hamas get their way and destroy the Jewish state, the few who survive will be hated for something else. So it goes.
 

Brian R. VanCise

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He's been on the television here and in the media as a 'talking head' giving 'expert' views on the American elections. He is being accorded status as a serious American politician in several European countries.

Talk about misinformation or uninformed. (no Tez3 I am not talking about you but instead the European media that would believe this)
 

Empty Hands

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He's been on the television here and in the media as a 'talking head' giving 'expert' views on the American elections. He is being accorded status as a serious American politician in several European countries.

Ugh. Your news media has perpetrated a massive disservice on its viewers.
 

Tez3

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Talk about misinformation or uninformed. (no Tez3 I am not talking about you but instead the European media that would believe this)

It's about being able to use the media though isn't it? Making them believe what you want while giving them what they want. It's the other war that's going on in Gaza, the media one. Sadly though the Israelis lose that war and the Palestininas tend to win in the sympathy stakes.
Television wants soundbites, small pieces of info and pictures they can show then move on, no one researches into things now as there's no time and th punters want the next soundbite.
 

Brian R. VanCise

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It's about being able to use the media though isn't it? Making them believe what you want while giving them what they want. It's the other war that's going on in Gaza, the media one. Sadly though the Israelis lose that war and the Palestininas tend to win in the sympathy stakes.
Television wants soundbites, small pieces of info and pictures they can show then move on, no one researches into things now as there's no time and th punters want the next soundbite.

That may be the case but it is a sorry state if David Duke is given any air time. (and an even sorrier commentary on the news media outlets that do so)
 

Tez3

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Certain parts of Europe are very receptive to rascist rhetoric.
 

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Quote: from elder999

Iran disputes report on suicide volunteers

TEHRAN, Iran – Iranian officials on Saturday strongly disputed media reports that Iran's top leader Ayatollah Ali Khameini has banned volunteers from leaving the country to carry out suicide bombings against Israel and stressed that the supreme leader meant only that practical obstacles remained for such attackers to get to Gaza.

The officials said The Associated Press misinterpreted Khamenei's comments when he said Thursday that "our hands are tied in this arena." The AP also quoted Khamenei as saying that Iran would assist the militant group Hamas, which is fighting Israel, in other ways.

The Iranian officials said Khamenei's words should not have been interpreted as a ban on such volunteers, but meant that any Iranians would have great practical difficulty in reaching Gaza because of Israel's offensive. The report was used by some Arab television stations.
....just to point out one of the real "evils" of the region.....in keeping with the title of the thread, it seems to me that no one wants peace in the Holy Land. __________________

I agree with you. I've been stating that there is guilt on all sides. To solve this situation, many issues need to be addressed. HAMAS needs to be destroyed of course, but, Israel is not handing it in a proper fashion. If they pull out now, HAMAS will claim victory and will resume the attacks. If they continue, they look very unethical. Shooting bombs with white phosphorus in it, which causes severe chemical burns is a violation in civilian areas. If they were just fighting HAMAS in a military zone, it would comply with international law, but, the fact there are families down there they are in violation. They need to get the civilians out, destroy HAMAS, and put sanctions on Iran. Otherwise, forget the whole thing. The fighting will continue. As far as sending suicide bombers, they don't need to. With the trauma going on, people down there will be angry enough that they will volunteer. As I said, all sides need to step back and evaluate the situation.
 

elder999

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And, in today's New York Times:

Israelis United on War as Censure Rises Abroad


JERUSALEM — To Israel’s critics abroad, the picture could not be clearer: Israel’s war in Gaza is a wildly disproportionate response to the rockets of Hamas, causing untold human suffering and bombing an already isolated and impoverished population into the Stone Age, and it must be stopped.


Yet here in Israel very few, at least among the Jewish population, see it that way.

As the editorial page of The Jerusalem Post put it on Monday, the world must be wondering, do Israelis really believe that everybody is wrong and they alone are right?

The answer is yes
 

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