Racist Cop or Combative Professor?

yorkshirelad

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I'm impressed that you guys are so involved with this. I think the people consistently posting this area need to find something to do other then talk about this.
The Cops showed up and did what they needed to do
Gates showed proof that it was his house
The cops should of left, but arrested the guy because he was being an ***
The cops realised they ****ed up and let him go
Gates started screaming racism
Obama stepped in where he shouldn't have

People get the hell over it. It's not the end of the world if cops screw up a little, someone over reacts, and Obama answers a damn question.

The cop did his job and made a legal arrest. Gates behaved like a royal ******* and Obama injected a racial element into a situation where there was none....yep nothing wrong with that:rofl:
 

Big Don

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I'm impressed that you guys are so involved with this. I think the people consistently posting this area need to find something to do other then talk about this.
The Cops showed up and did what they needed to do
As soon as they did, Gates started screaming about being a black man in America
Gates showed proof that it was his house
No, Gates argued, talked about the Cop's mom.
The cops should of left, but arrested the guy because he was being an ***
The cops realised they ****ed up and let him go
Gates started screaming racism
Obama stepped in where he shouldn't have

People get the hell over it. It's not the end of the world if cops screw up a little, someone over reacts, and Obama answers a damn question.
Had Gates calmly showed his ID when the cops showed up, there would have been NO problems. Instead, Gates chose to violate the rule:
"Don't Start Nothing. Won't be nothing"
 

5-0 Kenpo

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5-0Kenpo, Crowley was the focus for the tirade. Had the police left after having done their job, there would be nothing to report. Instead, he chose to stick around and make things worse. I'll ask the same question again, in case someone might want to answer it. I realize it's conjecture, but that's okay, because this is a discussion. In the absence of any kind of threat of violence or some other real danger, after ID'ing Gates, had Crowley ignored Gates' tantrum and said, "Thank you for your time. Sorry for any confusion. Have a nice day." And left. Do you think that there would be any kind of story at all if Crowley had simply left after having done his job?

But if you read the report, and believe it, that is exactly what he did. After ID'ing him, he left. It was only after Gates left the inside of his home and continued yelling did Crowley then take him to jail, again, after warning him to stop.

So I am still not understanding how Crowley contributed to this. Tell me, based on Gates (even self-admitted) behavior, do you believe that this wouldn't have gone up the chain if Crowley had not arrested him. I still think we would be talking about this.
 

5-0 Kenpo

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I'm impressed that you guys are so involved with this. I think the people consistently posting this area need to find something to do other then talk about this.
The Cops showed up and did what they needed to do
Gates showed proof that it was his house
The cops should of left, but arrested the guy because he was being an ***
The cops realised they ****ed up and let him go
Gates started screaming racism
Obama stepped in where he shouldn't have

People get the hell over it. It's not the end of the world if cops screw up a little, someone over reacts, and Obama answers a damn question.

You're wrong. The prosecutors declined to press charges. That is a completely different scenario to that which you posit. After almost ten years of being a cop, I can tell you that sometimes there is no rhyme or reason to why the do or do not prosecute. Usually, it consists of what they think they can win, not whether it's right to prosecute.

And again, how do you know why the cops arrested him. You have no idea. The man was breaking the laws of the State of Massechusetts. Uh, you get over it.
 

Steve

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First, Dr. Gates is not a 5 year old child.

Second, did you let your child misbehave or defy you indefinitely? Or did a time come where you took some sort of disciplinary action, and actually stuck with it? You empowered the child's defiance by drawing the line, than shifting it back. Sgt. Crowley drew the line. But when Dr. Gates crossed it, the sergeant took action. He had to, if he wanted respect down the road.
jks, that's very true. Gates isn't a child, however, the relationship is the same. Crowley is in a position of authority over Gates, and presumably has the training, experience and wisdom (not to mention responsibility) to handle the situation well and not lose control. This relationship is much the same as a parent and a child. When a child misbehaves, do you blame the child or the parent? Often, the parent is to blame.

To your second point, there are a lot of ways to handle a situation. The overriding principle I learned and always try to keep in mind is to not allow the situation to escalate so that the punishment is out of proportion to the situation. In other words, you don't ground a kid for two weeks because he doesn't want to go to bed. In the same vein, you don't arrest a guy for being angry with you because you accused him of being a burglar in his own home, even if he's being a jackass.

I will try to get back and read/respond a little more carefully to the rest of the thread, but I can't promise anything. It's crazy hot here and my house has no AC. So, for the last few days, it's been a low of about 90F in my house at night... up around 105F during the day. Three dogs and three kids to keep cool has been keeping me up most of the night, so I may not make much sense.

But, really quickly, yorkshirelad, are you comparing Gates to a guy experiencing a psychotic episode in your hometown?

And archangel, as I've said before, I'm focusing more on Crowley only because so many here want to give him a free pass. I'm not suggesting that he be fired or anything like that. I'm suggesting that he is not without blame and that this situation was as much a product of his actions as of Gates.
 

jks9199

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jks, that's very true. Gates isn't a child, however, the relationship is the same. Crowley is in a position of authority over Gates, and presumably has the training, experience and wisdom (not to mention responsibility) to handle the situation well and not lose control. This relationship is much the same as a parent and a child. When a child misbehaves, do you blame the child or the parent? Often, the parent is to blame.

To your second point, there are a lot of ways to handle a situation. The overriding principle I learned and always try to keep in mind is to not allow the situation to escalate so that the punishment is out of proportion to the situation. In other words, you don't ground a kid for two weeks because he doesn't want to go to bed. In the same vein, you don't arrest a guy for being angry with you because you accused him of being a burglar in his own home, even if he's being a jackass.

I will try to get back and read/respond a little more carefully to the rest of the thread, but I can't promise anything. It's crazy hot here and my house has no AC. So, for the last few days, it's been a low of about 90F in my house at night... up around 105F during the day. Three dogs and three kids to keep cool has been keeping me up most of the night, so I may not make much sense.

But, really quickly, yorkshirelad, are you comparing Gates to a guy experiencing a psychotic episode in your hometown?

And archangel, as I've said before, I'm focusing more on Crowley only because so many here want to give him a free pass. I'm not suggesting that he be fired or anything like that. I'm suggesting that he is not without blame and that this situation was as much a product of his actions as of Gates.
I don't think any of us have given Sgt. Crowley a "free pass." Most of us who are cops have said that, though we weren't there and can't speak with certainty, making an arrest may not have been the best course. But... I reread the reports. Sgt. Crowley tried to leave, and was followed. He warned Dr. Gates twice. Dr. Gates was yelling to the crowd, causing a public disturbance. Efforts to calm him failed. He got arrested. Sgt. Crowley had the legal authority to be there, he had the legal justification (probable cause) to make the arrest, and he tried to calm the situation. Sgt. Crowley neither created nor added to the situation; Dr. Gates's outrageous response to the sergeant's official presence inflamed it and took a routine encounter that should have lasted all of 3 minutes to an arrest.
 

yorkshirelad

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But, really quickly, yorkshirelad, are you comparing Gates to a guy experiencing a psychotic episode in your hometown?
.
The situation is comparable Steve. This is how I see it, take our loveable psycho Fred and his "evolution, devolution" rant and transport him from the quiet town of Berwick in Elmet to Leeds city centre and he would not get a second look. People would walk by him all day and not even glance in his direction. No cop would even consider arresting him for diturbing the peace. The situation is different in Berwick in Elmet however. The village is extremely quiet, suburban and it's inhabitants upper middle class. Any kind of distruption which would wake one up from an afternoon nap would be a disturbance of the peace. Relativity in action.

Now Gates goes off on a rant for all the world to hear. He said some things that were offensive and caused a stir, and said them loud and aggressively. I have never been to Boston, but I would hazard a guess that where Gates lives is a community of middle class academics, who usually behave in a professional manner. In other words, he doesn't live in a white dogshit infested council estate full of chavs. So you have to put Gates' actions into the context of where he lives.

Another thing to consider is both Gates' and Crowley's past. Crowley has an unblemished record as a cop and teaches race relations. How do you know this, my chubby little limey friend, I hear you ask? Well, if Crowley had so much of an argument with his mother about which trousers he was going to where for Sunday mass, as an eight year old, we would have heard about it on the network news. Gates' however is known as a black activist who has sympathies with the hateful separatist group The Nation of Islam. He is also known to have a hot temper and he's the one who made a racial issue out of this bollixology.

As a result of all the above info, I deduce that Crowley went to the Gates' residence (as a result of a 9/11 call) in order to prevent a possible break in/burglary. Effectively putting his own life on the line to seure Gates' property, as all LEOs would do. Gates was pissed already at having to break in to his own home. He had had a long journey and was tired, is known to have a temper in the best of times and adding to all the above was then faced with a WHITE cop. All this added together created a temper tantrum that ultimately lead to his arrest.

The professor is, however an arrogant elitist, who sees his position of authority at the university and his friendship with POTUS as an excuse to behave like a pre-pubescent princess, without suffering the consequences that the rest of the great unwashed (us) would have to suffer, if we had placed ourselves in similar circumstances.

Well today is the day. Obama's attempt at damage limitation. Corwley, Gates and Obama, will have a beer and hash this out like adults. The professor and Obama will, politely try to coherse the good Sgt to admit that he was wrong, so that they can all sing cumbaya together. Well Crowley represents the nation's LEOs in this meeting and I for one hopes that he, respectfully tells the both of them to stick it where the sun don't shine.
 
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Archangel M

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I hope Crowley is wise enough to bring a lawyer and union rep. with him....
 

yorkshirelad

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I hope Crowley is wise enough to bring a lawyer and union rep. with him....
No, they're gonna loosen their ties, put their feet up on the couches in the 'oval office', drink a couple of cold ones and shoot the **** for an hour or so. Just like old friends.....Well that's what we're all expected to believe anyway.
 

elder999

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i wouldnt be shocked if the president, or his staff rather, threaten the cop into apologizing.


There will be no "threats," only gentle persuasion, and a change will come over Sgt. Crowley. He'll publicly state that he's learned a valuable lesson, that he didn't realize what it was like to be a black man in America, and that he has a new understanding-and how he hopes he can spread that understanding, especially among police, to affect positive change in America......kumbaya, kumbaya, kumbaya.... :lfao:
 

elder999

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now THATS change i can believe in

Ya better believe it. Mark my words, 'cause I'm pullin' a Nostradamus, here. That's just how it will go down. Not gonna say the guy will apologize, but he's already an Obama supporter-he'll have no problem making a statement like that for "the good of the country," and, of course, subsequently making a bunch of people feel bad, and question their own judgement....bwahaha haha, and all that. :lfao:.
 

blindsage

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Hilarious! If he comes forward and says, "No I didn't apologize, even with their pressure," you're gonna say 'Damn straight'. But if he does apologize you just gave a 'prediction' to undermine any possible legitimacy to him changing his mind or even coming to an understanding with Gates. Nice trick. I don't think Crowley or Gates is the problem. It's their my-guy-can-do-no-wrong supporters.
 

jks9199

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WTOP is reporting on the outcome of the get-together:
"We agreed to move forward," Crowley said later when asked if anything was solved. "I think what you had today was two gentlemen agreeing to disagree on a particular issue. I don't think that we spent too much time dwelling on the past. We spent a lot of time discussing the future."

He's got a very good point.
 

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