On the bolded statement, I think you're just throwing balm at the posters who doubt TMA, have had trouble making it work FOR THEM. Being ambassadorial. You remind of certain TMA instructors I've run into who always claim there's alway something I'm not doing the way they want. I went to a local Isshin Ryu club. The Head Master was nigh on eighty. Now Okinawan karate is a superior karate style in certain ways to my more Japanese link-ed karate style. So I kind of expected his arrogance when I got it. I really didn't like Isshin Ryu at all. It was too stylized with complexity, and I understand the founder created the style around WW II to make karate (supposedly) more effective at fighting. Anyway, he was talking down my style and then interrupted to point out a a young woman, a new student relatively. Oh how poor her technique was, really in trouble. I thought her technique was good for the number of months sher had been there, and she was practicing very diligently. That really soured me on his mentor-ship. Incidentally when we were discussing TMA styles, he said that the kung fu practitioners made the best fighters he had ever witnessed. Which silently I concurred. Later in another class, he asked me if I would like to spar. I didn't come in talking about any rank. I'm sure I came across exactly like I do to the majority here. So by his voice, he didn't think I was accomplished at all. To make a long story short, I refused. Because sparring how's it's conventionally trained is most often stupid. For one, they had a kickboxer there who was fairly new, and he was beating up all the students up to black-belts, where there was three assistant instructors. Two of the instructors were 2nd degree. The one kinda ran the class and didn't spar. He didn't care for me at all. The other was a fighter. That fighter in another class was matched against the newbie who sucker punched me out of the blue when we standing observing the class. The match didn't get very far because they believed in moderate contact. The 2nd degree - fighter dropped the newbie (all anxious to show his athletic talent) with a spinning back kick. The newbie rolled around on the floor in pain for some time. At that I left. Another reason I left was I knew with my 'inferior' Japanese karate style, I could beat him. I did have one final meeting with the 3rd black-belt instructor, a middle aged man. He toyed the egregious kick-boxer around like a dog. Your know how those fighter types are... they are just going to outfight you (not). We had maybe two conversations about 20 minutes each. He was very eager for me to join, and respected very much my approach. He was the bona fide instructor among them all. Should I cross train, it wouldn't be Isshin Ryu. I understand your well accomplished and hold high achievement in TMA. However, I respectfully disagree. And you're not going to prevail on the issue by claiming mysticism. That is an excuse for ignorance. Mysticism is a formless, shapeless label that can have myriad meaning and applications across & among a plethora of circumstances. No intelligent / scientific argument can be made in an environment of mysticism. Mysticism makes the perfect foil for rhetoric. This is where on of the common principles of TMA sheds so much light and I'll post a video. Shotokan karate, IMO is on the bottom end of the ladder of sophistication in TMA. The kung fu's as a group are near or approach the top. They (these styles) for practical argument sake, couldn't be farther from each other in their level of sophistication and ultimate overall martial strength or power. Yet the JKA and the serious kung fu instructors here where I live, both focus on training the TMA model. The TMA model is on an underlying basis the same, they both develop the human potential in all the key areas. It's training that model properly, whether it's Shotokan and the Japanese karates, or the Chinese kung fu's that make the difference. And mysticism has nothing to do with it. It's in the TMA manual's, it's in the curriculum itself what defines TMA and how it works. Here's my Shotokan / JKA training video. Training at JKA (Japan Karate Association) Honbu Dojo 53,267 views Ryan Hayashi Published on Sep 21, 2014 The female instructor early on is Miki NAKAMACHI. She is a JKA kata champion. Frankly, I don't think of her kata as championship kata. It's also Shotokan which I don't like the style. It's also hard to tell from a computer screen sometimes. I could also take issue with certain aspects of the JKA training regimen depicted in the video. The answer to your cautions is what is wrong with Shotokan and what is wrong with Miki's kata let's say, is not the point. The TMA empirically model speaking, contains all the principles to develop martial skill way above what boxing, wrestling, and the Muay Thai we see today anyway, BJJ, etc. The challenge is to gain the accurate insights and then train those insights in a highly disciplined manner. And that is precisely what the JKA practitioners are doing, Miki is instructing, in that JKA video. When done properly, Shotokan karate will approach or reach the lower level kung fu's and Okinawan kempos in effect. That what the serious kung fu practitioners and instructors in my locale are doing. That's my personal view. And who in general needs more than that? This is necessarily a small percentage who achieve this level of martial skill, because of the understanding & investment involved. OTOH, I have no doubt the far majority of commercial MMA fighters would find it a very hard day challenging the JKA seniors @ the HQ. I wouldn't dream of it for a number of reasons, mainly in that it's a waste of time & stupid TMA. Miki's kata is the top way to train, in principle.