Qualifications

Discussion in 'Security and Bouncers' started by MJS, Jan 29, 2008.

  1. MJS

    MJS Administrator Staff Member

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    Obviously working in the security field or as a bouncer, you can be faced with a wide assortment of situations. You can be faced with people who co-operate with what you're telling them, all the way to folks that take a swing at you or pull a weapon.

    That being said...what qualifications/skills should someone in this field have? Should they have some MA background? Should they be 6'5, 250lbs of muscle?
     
  2. KempoGuy06

    KempoGuy06 Grandmaster

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    either one. as we know from our MA's training size isnt everything. Im 6'4 and 250lbs and Ive been manhandled by people 100lbs less than me. But having both can be an advantage as well especially since when people are drunk or hopped up on drugs the limits on their strength are gone.

    then again the physical aspect isnt the most important part, the persons mentality is extremely vital

    B
     
  3. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Unfortunately in this field in general there are very few qualifications needed to work other than a warm body and an employer interested in hiring you. That being said there are some great bouncer's out there that really know there trade well and understand the bottom line is protecting their clint/employer's business. These people do a really good job and are a credit to their profession. There are however, exactly the opposite unforunately.
     
  4. morph4me

    morph4me Goin' with the flow

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    I'm don't fall into eht category of bouncer or security, as I like the option of running away, but I think that probably the most important thing that's needed is presence. A calm, assertive, confident and decisive attitude and the aptitude to back it up.

    There are some people out there that want to think of themselves as "giant killers" a 6'6" 250 pound muscular guy is just a challenge to them, and you can squeeze an awful lot of wuss in a guy that big, so size can be irrelevant.
     
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  5. KempoGuy06

    KempoGuy06 Grandmaster

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    LOL...yes you can

    B
     
  6. MJS

    MJS Administrator Staff Member

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    Great replies! :)

    One thing that I'd like to comment on, that I found interesting, are the comments on size. I remember many discussions with people debating the size/strength argument. While I think that it does play some part, its not the end all be all deciding factor. This is displayed quite often on the UFC. Many fighters outweighed Gracie, and were even stronger, yet he pulled off the win. Keith Hackney and that Sumo guy...same thing. Now, I don't want to get into a huge tangent on that, so thats all I'll say on that subejct. :)

    As far as skill goes...I think that they should have some skill other than just being able to pound away on someone. Something that'll provide them with other options aside from striking, ie: control/joint locks/manipulations, etc.
     
  7. Bobby135

    Bobby135 Orange Belt

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    The biggest qualification that a person can have is the use of the grey matter between their ears. Having the ability to think along with social skills will you get you out of most things before they cross the verbal point and become physical.

    With that being said I am 5'6" 300lbs (yes i know i need to do something about that, and all I have been doing is making excuses, but we will save that for a different post) with a goatee. To some people I look intimidating and to others I am just a fat kid. Interesting that one person can be on opposite ends of the spectrum. With that being said I think my martial arts training has given me the confidence to enter a situation where a physical altercation could occur and be calm and collective. By knowing I have the ability to protect myself and others if needed helps a lot.

    As for you giants out there, the size factor works out well when the vast majority of patrons would have to stand on a chair to punch you in the face. An individual who has the ability to place their palm on the top of your head and then pick you up like a basketball calls for the immediate attention of those around them (in most cases).

    Mostly it comes down to the confidence you have in yourself and your ability to assert authority with a presence.
     
  8. Bobby135

    Bobby135 Orange Belt

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    In regards to general skill that a bouncer should have. Along with common sense they should have some basic understanding of self defense and minimal joint and limb manipulation. Although training should be provided to new employees anyways.
     
  9. MarkBarlow

    MarkBarlow Purple Belt

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    I'm 6'4" and around 215lbs. Sometimes I used my size to intimidate and stop a fight before it started, sometimes I had to put my hands on someone. Either way, I figured I was using the strategy I'd learned in Jujutsu.

    Sometimes you can win a fight by looking like you are ready to fight. I'm a fairly soft-spoken person but knowing when to scream in someone's face to completely demoralize them is useful tool. On the other hand, several times, I played the good 'ol boy and kept a drunk happy and distracted until I could get him out in the parking lot.

    I know some great doormen who are under 5'8" so I know size alone isn't shouldn't be a criteria but being able to fight isn't always the answer either. A combination seems to work best.
     
  10. texasmr2

    texasmr2 Yellow Belt

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    Glad I found this forum as I'm considering a 2nd job as a bouncer at a local pub/eatery. I'm 5'11" and a fairly solid guy at 220lb's due to my sport's and bodybuilding background but I as well like to use the 'grey matter' form. What I'm trying to learn is what discipline of martial art's, if any, would be good for close quarter's hand to hand or submission's ?

    Thank's for any input or advice,
    Gregg
     
  11. Bobby135

    Bobby135 Orange Belt

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    For close quarter I like Modern Arnis and Small Circle JuJitsu. I have studied those in the past and find the hand work and joint manipulation is great. I am currently studying Jiulong Baguazhang, which is an internal art with external applications. It really comes down to what works best for you, but I dont know if things like flying kicks will be helpful to you. Again these are IMHO, and I hope more people have some advice for you.

    Bobby
     
  12. texasmr2

    texasmr2 Yellow Belt

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    Great advice Bobby thank you. The reason I asked is as we all know in a pub/bar/eatery there are other's within very close quarter's of a potential conflict who could be injured by a drunk or 'out of hand' patron. Thus hand/hand & submission hold's would be best for inside. NOW once we get outside that's another story lol!
     
  13. tradrockrat

    tradrockrat 2nd Black Belt

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    I think I posted this somewhere before, but I was a bouncer and eventually the head bouncer at a strip club. When I hired someone, the most important thing I considered was the answer to the question, "What is your job as a doorman?"

    Because as far as I was concerned a security / bouncers job was to ensure that a good time was had by all patrons and that the environment was a safe one. I wanted bouncers who were smart enough to prevent fights - not just strong enough to break them up. I needed security who realized that getting someone outside was all we needed to do - not follow them out for a rumble. And I wanted doormen who made friends with the customers and remembered their names, not guys who just said, "Ten dollar cover, bud..."

    A good rule of thumb - an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of kick ***

    On the other hand - the fact remains that eventually you will be in an altercation, so I trained my guys in locks and holds as well as group tactics - we never went one on one with a customer if it could be helped
     
  14. agemechanic03

    agemechanic03 Purple Belt

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    Not a bouncer or anything like that, but I feel that they should have...Common Sense ( not many people have that anymore), People Skills (try to calmly talk the situation down) and some sort of self defense classes. My $.02
     
  15. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    All doorpeople in the UK have to licenced now. This means doing a course and being vetted. if you have a criminal record you can't obtain the licence. It's the same for private security personnel though the course is slightly different. All have to wear a badge and this can be taken off you for misconduct, the SIA inspectors come round checking up and of course the police can also recommend a badge is taken away. Venues are not allowed to hire anyone who is not licenced.

    http://www.the-sia.org.uk/home
     
  16. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Hey Tez3 that is great! I am sure that the level of professionalism in the UK is going up. [​IMG]
     
  17. Adept

    Adept Master Black Belt

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    It's a similar situation in Australia. You need to be certified to be employed.

    It's had mixed results. Yes, we've gotten rid of some of the ruthless brawlers, you know, the guys who tape their fists and polish their knuckle dusters before coming to work. But at the same time a lot of the older, more experienced bouncers are being replaced by tiny, completely unqualified immigrant university students. Usually Indians or Pakistanis, these guys have terrible English, can't handle themselves, and the culture difference renders any people skills they have useless. Some of them are great, but most of them require baby-sitting by another bouncer!

    tradrockrat has it pretty much covered. I always call it the carrot and the stick. When you have to deal with someone, always use the carrot first. If you've tried the carrot and it isn't working, then resort to the stick. Most of the problems and bad ejections can be linked back to deploying the stick without judicious use of the carrot.

    Also, you've got to be able to talk to all your patrons, and not only talk to them, but get them on side. If I'm on the door, and a group of young guys walk up, I'll pick one of them.

    "Holy heck dude, whats up with that shirt? Did you let your mum dress you?"

    If you've picked the right group, his mates will start heckling him. Then you start on them.

    "Don't you start, mate. Have a look at your shoes! Hey Steve, come and check out this guys shoes!"

    "And you've got nothing, with that haircut. I hope you got your money back!"

    "Aw heck, you guys are embarrasing me! Get inside, you're making the venue look messy!"

    If you've done it right, each and every member of that group will walk inside laughing and shaking your hand, and anything you ask them to do later in the night will get done without hassle and without needing to employ the stick.

    At the same time though, you have to know when and where to be quiet and respectful. A group of expensive suits aren't going to appreciate the same treatment as a group of dock workers or football supporters.

    And in addition, you need to be able to rock and roll when your balls brush the bandsaw. And sometimes when that happens you'll be grossly outnumbered, perhaps working solo or working with some greenhorn who'll just make the situation worse, and you have to have the composure and skills to handle that as best you can.
     
  18. gimgamgommetje

    gimgamgommetje White Belt

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    I've read some great things already.

    people skills is very important, prevention skills is important
    It's good to know how to remove a person from the venue without causing too much damage. (joint locks etc)
    training with the group you work with is a great way to improve the teamwork.

    I'd like to add a few things:

    first aid skills. people often come to the security with all kinds of problems.
    You should have a clue what to do unless you have first aid teams readily available (at big events).

    fire safety skills. you should recognize and deal with a dangerous situation before it actually happens (prevention) You should know how to deal with evacuation etc.

    Furthermore, different clubs can have different requirements.
     
  19. Drac

    Drac Sr. Grandmaster

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    Good advice...Hapkido would be a benefit too...I was a bouncer while I was studying Shorin-Ryu and learning the Kubotan...The Kubotan was a great little surpise...
     
  20. tad2bad

    tad2bad Yellow Belt

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    I completely agree. I have never been a big guy and when caught up in sticky situations a level head has always been my strength. Im a firm believer that you can think your way out of about anything. That being said, you cant really defend against strikes or take down any attacker with your brain so some skill is required I think.
     

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