Profiling

[KenpoTex]

Someone sent this to me, it's humorous but makes a good point.



Profiling

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To ensure we Americans never offend anyone - - - - particularly fanatics intent on killing us - airport screeners will not
be allowed to profile people. They will continue random searches of 80-year-old women, little kids, airline pilots with
proper identification, Secret Service agents who are members of the President's security detail, 85-year old
Congressmen with metal hips, and Medal Of Honor winning former Governors. Let's pause a moment and take the
following test.

In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by:
(a) Olga Corbutt
(b) Sitting Bull
(c) Arnold Schwartzeneger
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages 17 and 40

In 1979,the U.S. embassy in Iran was taken over by:
(a) Lost Norwegians
(b) Elvis
(c) A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:
(a) John Dillinger
(b) The King of Sweden
(c) The Boy Scouts
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

In 1983, the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
(a) A pizza delivery boy
(b) Pee Wee Herman
(c) Geraldo Rivera making up for a slow news day
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked, and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered and
thrown overboard by:
(a) The Smurfs
(b) Davy Jones
(c) The Little Mermaid
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a U.S. Navy diver was murdered by:
(a) Captain Kid
(b) Charles Lindberg
(c) Mother Teresa
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:
(a) Scooby Doo
(b) The Tooth Fairy
(c) Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid who had a few sticks of dynamite left over from the train job.
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:
(a) Richard Simmons
(b) Grandma Moses
(c) Michael Jordan
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

In 1998, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:
(a )Mr. Rogers
(b) Hillary, to distract attention from Wild Bill's women problems
(c) The World Wrestling Federation to promote its next villain: "Mustapha the Merciless"
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked and destroyed and thousands of people were killed by:
(a) Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck, and Elmer Fudd
(b) The Supreme Court of Florida
(c) Mr. Bean
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:
(a) Enron
(b) The Lutheran Church
(c) The NFL
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:
(a) Bonny and Clyde
(b) Captain Kangaroo
(c) Billy Graham
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

Hmmm . . . nope, no patterns anywhere to justify profiling!

 

[Flatlander]

The fundamental problem with racial profiling is that the masses tend to view its use by authority as justification to support stereotyping and ethnic hatred. Profiling can be useful tool, but it comes along with some side effects.

 

[Rob Broad]

I for one am willing to giving up a few of my civil liberties to live a safer world, the only questions ends up being how far are we willing to go to protect ourselves, and once we are safe, will be granted our freedoms back.

 

[pete]

from a different perspective, as a life long new yorker, "profiling" carries serious consequences. giving up civil liberties, to me, would be giving up our civilization. for the reasons of obvious safety, i will gladly sacrifice my time and convenience to comply with security standards dictated by the times in which we live... but... i will not tolerate being subjected to "special treatment" because of my ancestry, skin color, religion, accent, hair color, etc. that is just wrong.

pete

 

[dearnis.com]

I for one am willing to giving up a few of my civil liberties to live a safer world

One of my favorite quotes: "those who will sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither." (paraphrased)
If you wish to give up your civil liberties all well and good but kindly dont put mine on the block as well.

 

[PeachMonkey]

I for one am willing to giving up a few of my civil liberties to live a safer world, the only questions ends up being how far are we willing to go to protect ourselves, and once we are safe, will be granted our freedoms back.

I think your point of view is understandable, Rob.

However, as a student of history, I know that stripped civil liberties are far too rarely given back. I know that scoundrels use crises to consolidate their power.

And, as as a student of history, I know that recent (most? all?) US administrations cannot be fully trusted.

 

[MA-Caver]

Dang! And I got all the answers wrong.

The day after 9-11 on the net I put up a topic on a discussion board (no longer up) about how we (Americans) needed to be careful about racial profiling. That we don't end up treating Muslim-Americans like we did Japanese Americans in WWII simply because of their race. ... Too late.

We all know the extraordinarily difficulties in trying to identify a potential terrorist without using their race/ethnic-background/religion as an identifying marker. The cute multiple choice test given has it's point. The hard part is identifying which ones out of a group of Muslim males between the ages of 17 and 40 are the extremists and which ones are just average, good-hearted people like everyone else.

And if we think it's hard over here? Try living in Israel or anywhere in the middle east.

IMO we can only catch them best as we can when they make mistakes before they commit the terror.

 

[someguy]

Guilty unless found inocent. I love it alot. As long as I'm not accused of anything or some one who I'm close to...
If you want I'm sure that I could make up something in the same format to show that the same for ____ group. I think canibals would be good. Oh oh oh lessee. Let's play the name canibals in the US over the last 100 years. This comes to mind after an epsode of King of the Hill. Jeffrey Domer is the first person who comes to mind. Maybe I'll do more one that point later but I'll probably forget it.
I got serious issues with profiling. And I'm not to likely to be a victim of it ever. I'm your average white guy who can best be described as the guy who looks like the next guy.(So if Istart hangin' with the good lookin' people then I'll look good right?)
"Give me liberty or give me Death" Patrick Henry if I'm not mistaken ya know a founding father or in other words one of those guys whose ideals this country was founded on.

 

[Rob Broad]

I am sure the founding fathers of the USA never considered terrorists who could kill thousands in seconds.

 

[someguy]

The principle stands none the less. Ya know pledging there lives fortunes etc. to a cause.

 

[RandomPhantom700]

I am sure the founding fathers of the USA never considered terrorists who could kill thousands in seconds.

Nor could they have predicted the creation of jet airliners, the internet, or hanging chads causing chaos in voting systems. Seriously, is this statement supposed to mean or prove anything?

At any rate, the Inquisition and Crusades both happened before their time, so culture wars weren't out of their mindsets. Questions of human rights shouldn't come down to the efficiency of killing machines, i.e. how many seconds thousands of people die.

 

[KenpoTex]

good points people...

My reason for posting this was not to imply that I feel that a certain group of people (in this case moslem males between the ages of 17 and 40) should be mistreated or be presumed "guilty until proven inocent." Just that I think that if we're going to be "security conscious" and have these "enhanced security procedures" then let's spend the time checking the people who fit the profile instead of trying to confiscate the Medal of Honor from an 80+ war hero or taking nail-clippers from the armed sky-marshal.


On the rights/safety issue. I do NOT buy into the "let the government take liberties with our rights in order to protect us" idea. Benjamin Franklin once said (this is the one dearnis paraphrased) "Those who would give up an essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

 

[DoxN4cer]

And if we think it's hard over here? Try living in Israel or anywhere in the middle east.

IMO we can only catch them best as we can when they make mistakes before they commit the terror.

Europe is no picnic either. With the EU as it is; the borders are very open, which allows anybody to go from place to place often with no passport or customs control.

 

[pete]

... let's spend the time checking the people who fit the profile instead of trying to confiscate the Medal of Honor from an 80+ war hero or taking nail-clippers from the armed sky-marshal...

i thought it was liberty and justice for all, not just those who don't fit your profile. somehow i don't think the heroes would mind the inconvenience and understand.

would it also be rational for the security conscious cab driver to select his fares after dark based on his profile of what is safe?

or police randomly stopping innocent drivers of luxury automobiles, that don't fit the profile of typical owners?

 

[hardheadjarhead]

I for one am willing to giving up a few of my civil liberties to live a safer world, the only questions ends up being how far are we willing to go to protect ourselves, and once we are safe, will be granted our freedoms back.

So you're an Arab, Rob? Or do you merely resemble a man of mid-east descent?



Regards,


Steve

 

[michaeledward]

And on April 19. 1995, how many of us thought that muslem extremists between the ages of 17 and 40 drove a white van filled with fertilizer and petrol to a non-descript federal building in Oklahoma?
<<< insert graphic of michaeledward raising his hand >>>

Yep ... I'm ashamed to say, that I did not think that American's perpetrated terrorist activities. I learned my lesson that day.

But, you know, come to think of it ... how old was McVeigh? Maybe we should just lock up all the 17 - 40 year olds (I'll be 40 in just a couple of weeks). That will solve all our problems, won't it?

Thanks ... Mike

 

[michaeledward]

My reason for posting this was not to imply that I feel that a certain group of people (in this case moslem males between the ages of 17 and 40) should be mistreated or be presumed "guilty until proven inocent." Just that I think that if we're going to be "security conscious" and have these "enhanced security procedures" then let's spend the time checking the people who fit the profile instead of trying to confiscate the Medal of Honor from an 80+ war hero or taking nail-clippers from the armed sky-marshal.

And then we see articles like this ...
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/07/17/fbi.bulletin/index.html

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The FBI's weekly alert bulletin, sent to 18,000 law enforcement agencies nationwide, focused this week on the possibility of al Qaeda recruiting non-Arabs to carry out attacks in the United States.
"Finding operatives with U.S. [citizenship or legal residency] status would greatly facilitate al Qaeda's ability to carry out an attack within the United States," the bulletin said.

Those fighting for a cause will adapt their methods to fit the circumstances, just as the minutemen of 1775 selected the tactic of hiding behind stone walls on the green in Lexington.

I believe racial profiling is a non-delicate instrument when wielded poorly results in greater harm for all that what it might be trying to prevent.

Thanks for listening. Mike

 

[PeachMonkey]

Yep ... I'm ashamed to say, that I did not think that American's perpetrated terrorist activities. I learned my lesson that day.

Similar boat here, Mike... I vividly remember where I was when I learned of the Oklahoma City bombing. I stood in front of the entry desk to my office and said, "I wonder if it was Islamic Jihad or the PLO".

I had known that American groups could feasibly perform acts of terror, but I jumped to the Arab conclusion. (And, given the state of terror groups at the time, not even a terribly educated Arab conclusion)

 

[Flatlander]

Similar boat here, Mike... I vividly remember where I was when I learned of the Oklahoma City bombing. I stood in front of the entry desk to my office and said, "I wonder if it was Islamic Jihad or the PLO".

I had known that American groups could feasibly perform acts of terror, but I jumped to the Arab conclusion. (And, given the state of terror groups at the time, not even a terribly educated Arab conclusion)

And that is one of the fundamental problems with the 'profiliing tool'. In some ways, it can actually limit the scope of an investigation, when previous incidents have led to using profiling. Really, who amongst us would have even entertained the notion that Oklahoma was an American?

The profiling gets taken out of context. Use psychological profiling to track down a criminal, sure. But I think racial profiling must be extremely limited in its use, and there are very, very few good applications for it.

 

[Rob Broad]

I am Canadian of Irish, Scottish and Brittish descent and very proud of it. I am against terrorism in all it forms. But I am willing to undergo more extensive searches at the airport, longer waits at the border when going across in my car, and delays when sending and recieving packages from the US. I do not wish to see a police state or martial law. Too many times I have been in airports and seen people complaining about the delays or why do they get asked so many questions, it is for their safety.

I would not want to give up any of my Right and Freedoms that are granted to me Under the Canadian Rights and Freedoms Act, but I will give up certain liberties for safety. I do not mind delays when they are for safety. Nothing sacrificed means nothing gained.