Pressure to travel

[Headhunter]

so right now I'm living in bournemat have been for 6 months now. For a while I've been travelling and training a bit. But I got myself a decent enough job and settled again. Close to where my kids are now. I'm training at a Krav Maga club mainly and teaching there on Sunday mornings for kid classes. The training is fine and enjoying it. But an issue I'm having with the instructor is he wants people to travel around a lot for camps and events. Now my answer is no. Because these events are not cheap and I can't afford it. It's as simple as that especially these trips to Israel that they keep bringing up. Now a trip to Israel from the uk is very expensive plus accommodation and the overall event just to much. Me and a few guys at the club are in the same boat.

I stopped travelling around because I needed to help support my daughter who's been living in America with a boyfriend and long story she ended up with not a lot of money because if him. But now she's back in UK working but still very much struggling and I'm helping where I can.

But anyway the instructor said to me the other day. "You want to come to Israel for a week long camp?" I said I couldn't because if the money. The look on his face looked disgusted at me and he said really? I said yeah his response was "well there's hundreds of excuses that can be made" then walked off. I was just like what.....it's not an excuse it's a fact I can't afford to be travelling to Israel then later he addressed the whole class saying similar stuff like oh if you want to progress you must travel and you can make excuses about time and money but really you have to decide what's important in your life and if you want to succeed or want to be second best. Honestly that really pissed me off bcwayse my family is far more important than going to Israel and sucking up to a few high grades, I spoke to a few friends there and they were a bit annoyed to saying he'd been trying to guilt them into going to. Thing is the instructor runs his own business that's spread around the world so money is no issue for him so he expects everyone else to be the same. I have tried to explain things to him but he's always brushed me off before I could get it out. So today I made an excuse and said I was working so I didn't help run his kids class today and I sent him an email explaining my situation and his response was simply.

"Guess you won't ever reach the top level"

Honestly that's just completely irritated me. He's been acting like a jerk the last few weeks making comments about my other training and if I threw a roundhouse kick in sparring he'd say stuff like oh roundhouse kicks don't work in real fights (apparently he's not a fans of them) but it's just annoying. I'm tired of dealing with all this junk. I just want to train and having all this just really wrecks your motivation to train.

 

[SOD-WC]

Thats both equally sad and infuriating, geting good should not be based on money. Besides moving to another place i dont see how else you could resolve this.
What are the chances of him tarnishing your name to other places of similar art?
Do you know if anyone else also backed out and getting the same treatment as u.

 

[isshinryuronin]

This guy sounds like a real ***. Krav maga is a hard core, pure combat survival system, created and evolved without the philosophical or spiritual input, unlike the oriental martial arts. Not to say there are not good instructors or students, such as yourself, just that certain moral virtues are not imbedded in it. This can lead to a higher percentage of misusing and abusing that art and undesirable people advancing in it.

If this instructor is the school owner, I'd quit, unwilling to help support someone who has so little regard for his students' situation. A teacher-student relationship will not work well without mutual respect. Quit before he destroys all your motivation for training. It will be his loss, not yours.

P.S.
I noticed "***" was censored out. You can't say that? This guy deserves an exception.

 

[drop bear]

Do MMA.

 

[_Simon_]

Yeeeeeah... that's pretty offputting. Not a fan of that nonsense... everyone is training for their own reasons, and if an instructor can't be supportive in that and is being disrespectful, pushy and judgemental, wouldn't be someone I'd wanna hang around or be taught by...

Sorry to hear bro, I'd suggest being honest and upfront with him, nothing to lose, if he scoffs at that, it's your call what to do.

 

[dvcochran]

my family is far more important than going to Israel and sucking up to a few high grades

This says it all.
Having been one in my competition years, I get the alpha mentality. I think most high level combat competitors have to have this. To a be good instructor and frankly a good human being, a person has to know when to turn it off. Sounds like this instructor does not. That is not on you so try not to let it affect you personally. Keep you bigger picture Needs in front to the other guys Wants.
Are you in a circuit or training for a match? That would be the only way those comment 'Might' make any sense. Regardless, the instructor has zero tact or compassion. Not good qualities. A person can be "the best of the best" and still be human.

Take care of you family first, if you do they will always be there. It may be a situation where you stay off the radar and just workout.
I am assuming at least one reason the instructor encourages the travel is for his own training or commercial value? There appears to be value in the quality of your teaching skills. Have you asked the instructor if he will pay for you to go with him on the trip? Approach with him with the reasons this is a good idea. Not the reasons you cannot pay for the trip.
If money for class is a factor in this equation, related to teaching the kids class, you may just have to suck it up and ignore the petty comments.

Sorry to hear about your daughter's bad experience. It is great to hear about family taking care of family.

Our 25 year old got home Friday. He has a week break in his schedule and it is so great to see him. They do grow up too fast. Just what we should be raising them to do. Still hard sometimes.

 

[jobo]

so right now I'm living in bournemat have been for 6 months now. For a while I've been travelling and training a bit. But I got myself a decent enough job and settled again. Close to where my kids are now. I'm training at a Krav Maga club mainly and teaching there on Sunday mornings for kid classes. The training is fine and enjoying it. But an issue I'm having with the instructor is he wants people to travel around a lot for camps and events. Now my answer is no. Because these events are not cheap and I can't afford it. It's as simple as that especially these trips to Israel that they keep bringing up. Now a trip to Israel from the uk is very expensive plus accommodation and the overall event just to much. Me and a few guys at the club are in the same boat.

I stopped travelling around because I needed to help support my daughter who's been living in America with a boyfriend and long story she ended up with not a lot of money because if him. But now she's back in UK working but still very much struggling and I'm helping where I can.

But anyway the instructor said to me the other day. "You want to come to Israel for a week long camp?" I said I couldn't because if the money. The look on his face looked disgusted at me and he said really? I said yeah his response was "well there's hundreds of excuses that can be made" then walked off. I was just like what.....it's not an excuse it's a fact I can't afford to be travelling to Israel then later he addressed the whole class saying similar stuff like oh if you want to progress you must travel and you can make excuses about time and money but really you have to decide what's important in your life and if you want to succeed or want to be second best. Honestly that really pissed me off bcwayse my family is far more important than going to Israel and sucking up to a few high grades, I spoke to a few friends there and they were a bit annoyed to saying he'd been trying to guilt them into going to. Thing is the instructor runs his own business that's spread around the world so money is no issue for him so he expects everyone else to be the same. I have tried to explain things to him but he's always brushed me off before I could get it out. So today I made an excuse and said I was working so I didn't help run his kids class today and I sent him an email explaining my situation and his response was simply.

"Guess you won't ever reach the top level"

Honestly that's just completely irritated me. He's been acting like a jerk the last few weeks making comments about my other training and if I threw a roundhouse kick in sparring he'd say stuff like oh roundhouse kicks don't work in real fights (apparently he's not a fans of them) but it's just annoying. I'm tired of dealing with all this junk. I just want to train and having all this just really wrecks your motivation to train.

id take it a stage further, you shouldn't feel like you need to justify your decision to someone YOU PAY to teach you. He is the hired help

By discussing your financial situation with him, which is absolutely non of his business, your encouraging him to think he is more important than he is.

If your decision is NO, then that's all you need to say. NO i'm not going and leave it at that. If he doesn't like that, its his problem,

never apologise never explain, certainly not to someone of scant acquaintance over a decision your quite at liberty to make

 

[Xue Sheng]

And how much money does the instructor get out of this if you, or anyone else goes?

 

[Yokozuna514]

so right now I'm living in bournemat have been for 6 months now. For a while I've been travelling and training a bit. But I got myself a decent enough job and settled again. Close to where my kids are now. I'm training at a Krav Maga club mainly and teaching there on Sunday mornings for kid classes. The training is fine and enjoying it. But an issue I'm having with the instructor is he wants people to travel around a lot for camps and events. Now my answer is no. Because these events are not cheap and I can't afford it. It's as simple as that especially these trips to Israel that they keep bringing up. Now a trip to Israel from the uk is very expensive plus accommodation and the overall event just to much. Me and a few guys at the club are in the same boat.

I stopped travelling around because I needed to help support my daughter who's been living in America with a boyfriend and long story she ended up with not a lot of money because if him. But now she's back in UK working but still very much struggling and I'm helping where I can.

But anyway the instructor said to me the other day. "You want to come to Israel for a week long camp?" I said I couldn't because if the money. The look on his face looked disgusted at me and he said really? I said yeah his response was "well there's hundreds of excuses that can be made" then walked off. I was just like what.....it's not an excuse it's a fact I can't afford to be travelling to Israel then later he addressed the whole class saying similar stuff like oh if you want to progress you must travel and you can make excuses about time and money but really you have to decide what's important in your life and if you want to succeed or want to be second best. Honestly that really pissed me off bcwayse my family is far more important than going to Israel and sucking up to a few high grades, I spoke to a few friends there and they were a bit annoyed to saying he'd been trying to guilt them into going to. Thing is the instructor runs his own business that's spread around the world so money is no issue for him so he expects everyone else to be the same. I have tried to explain things to him but he's always brushed me off before I could get it out. So today I made an excuse and said I was working so I didn't help run his kids class today and I sent him an email explaining my situation and his response was simply.

"Guess you won't ever reach the top level"

Honestly that's just completely irritated me. He's been acting like a jerk the last few weeks making comments about my other training and if I threw a roundhouse kick in sparring he'd say stuff like oh roundhouse kicks don't work in real fights (apparently he's not a fans of them) but it's just annoying. I'm tired of dealing with all this junk. I just want to train and having all this just really wrecks your motivation to train.

I completely understand how you feel and TBH it sounds like he's putting a little pressure on you and his inner core because he isn't confident in his pitch to make you want to go on your own. I've heard this kind of thing around MA for awhile, unfortunately. CI who want travel companions or people that will follow them where ever they want to go. I think if you had a talk with him about it you would probably glean that it has something to do with his 'people' not being committed enough and so his response is to put a little pressure on you in the hopes that you will pony up and go on some of these 'trips' with him.

I've been in this position before and I am pretty upfront about what I will and will not do. I'm a busy person and do a lot for our dojo but I never put anyone's needs before my family. I don't feel as if I have to bring it up all the time but when I get the feeling like I am being pressured to go on a trip where I have to pay for the expenses out of my own pocket, I have no problem saying no, can't do it because I have something to do with my family.

Does it stop my advancement or ability to do other things at the dojo ? Maybe, but it doesn't seem like it. I still teach the spots that work for me and the students that come out of these classes seem to be performing well at competitions and gradings. When it comes to sparring in class, I can still hold my own against anyone (even our international competitors) so I tend to let my efforts speak for themselves. If that isn't enough and I find myself being marginalized because I won't travel (unless my expenses are paid for or it is an event that I want to go to that is something I am willing to sacrifice for) then I suppose I will have some decisions to make.

At the end of the day, Instructors, dojo operators, or whoever feels like they need to resort to guilt to have a travel companion should really examine if they are following the tenets of their martial art. You want to have people follow you to seminars and work shops in other countries, well perhaps they should spend a little time working on those relationships so that those people WANT to go because they want to spend more time with you doing something you all have in common instead of making them feel as if they HAVE to go to advance or show they are committed to their training.

Good luck and hopefully your instructor comes to his senses.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

id take it a stage further, you shouldn't feel like you need to justify your decision to someone YOU PAY to teach you. He is the hired help

By discussing your financial situation with him, which is absolutely non of his business, your encouraging him to think he is more important than he is.

If your decision is NO, then that's all you need to say. NO i'm not going and leave it at that. If he doesn't like that, its his problem,

never apologise never explain, certainly not to someone of scant acquaintance over a decision your quite at liberty to make

I think I’d actually go so far as to clearly state that this is about priorities, and his business isn’t my priority.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

so right now I'm living in bournemat have been for 6 months now. For a while I've been travelling and training a bit. But I got myself a decent enough job and settled again. Close to where my kids are now. I'm training at a Krav Maga club mainly and teaching there on Sunday mornings for kid classes. The training is fine and enjoying it. But an issue I'm having with the instructor is he wants people to travel around a lot for camps and events. Now my answer is no. Because these events are not cheap and I can't afford it. It's as simple as that especially these trips to Israel that they keep bringing up. Now a trip to Israel from the uk is very expensive plus accommodation and the overall event just to much. Me and a few guys at the club are in the same boat.

I stopped travelling around because I needed to help support my daughter who's been living in America with a boyfriend and long story she ended up with not a lot of money because if him. But now she's back in UK working but still very much struggling and I'm helping where I can.

But anyway the instructor said to me the other day. "You want to come to Israel for a week long camp?" I said I couldn't because if the money. The look on his face looked disgusted at me and he said really? I said yeah his response was "well there's hundreds of excuses that can be made" then walked off. I was just like what.....it's not an excuse it's a fact I can't afford to be travelling to Israel then later he addressed the whole class saying similar stuff like oh if you want to progress you must travel and you can make excuses about time and money but really you have to decide what's important in your life and if you want to succeed or want to be second best. Honestly that really pissed me off bcwayse my family is far more important than going to Israel and sucking up to a few high grades, I spoke to a few friends there and they were a bit annoyed to saying he'd been trying to guilt them into going to. Thing is the instructor runs his own business that's spread around the world so money is no issue for him so he expects everyone else to be the same. I have tried to explain things to him but he's always brushed me off before I could get it out. So today I made an excuse and said I was working so I didn't help run his kids class today and I sent him an email explaining my situation and his response was simply.

"Guess you won't ever reach the top level"

Honestly that's just completely irritated me. He's been acting like a jerk the last few weeks making comments about my other training and if I threw a roundhouse kick in sparring he'd say stuff like oh roundhouse kicks don't work in real fights (apparently he's not a fans of them) but it's just annoying. I'm tired of dealing with all this junk. I just want to train and having all this just really wrecks your motivation to train.

Man, that’s bad mojo, bad leadership, bad business, and a few other bad things all at once. I’ve normally only ever seen that level of guilt sales in multi-level sales organizations

 

[jobo]

I think I’d actually go so far as to clearly state that this is about priorities, and his business isn’t my priority.

and if the conversation stops there, that's fine, but even that is him having to provide justification, which judging by the conversations so far will extend to having to explain what his more pressing priorities are, which will then be treated as an excuse and more guilt tripping.

transactional analysis shows the instructor is behaving as a critic parent and head hunter as a child pandering to and trying to justify the criticisms.

that relationship is unhealthy and needs to be broken

 

[Gerry Seymour]

and if the conversation stops there, that's fine, but even that is him having to provide justification, which judging by the conversations so far will extend to having to explain what his more pressing priorities are, which will then be treated as an excuse and more guilt tripping.

transactional analysis shows the instructor is behaving as a critic parent and head hunter as a child pandering to and trying to justify the criticisms.

that relationship is unhealthy and needs to be broken

Spot on with the TA reference.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

really you have to decide what's important in your life and if you want to succeed or want to be second best.

If an instructor said this to me, this would be my response to him. That's basically saying you can only be best in one thing, and second best in everything else. I'd rather be best with my family/financial situation/friendships, and let martial arts fall in fourth.

That's if I even said anything to him. I'd probably actually lead more towards what jobo is saying, and not give him any explanation. I would leave the dojo though if he kept on pushing.

 

[geezer]

... my family is far more important than going to Israel and sucking up to a few high grades...

You’ve got your priorities straight. Don’t let your instructor stress you out.

My current instructor Is very skilled, but also pressures people to spend more time and money on his program (including camps, travel, and expensive rank promotions) than they should, and he sometimes says unkind things about students who decide to discontinue training for good reasons, reasons similar to yours.

One of his most senior instructors is a psychotherapist by profession, and in private conversation with me put it like this: “”Sifu is a businessman of course, but moreover, he doesn’t do second-person well, if at all.”

”What does that mean?”, I asked.

“It means he has little empathy” my friend replied. ”He can’t put himself in another’s shoes.”

Sounds like you instructor is cut from the same cloth.

 

[dvcochran]

There is a 4-letter word for people like that, even if they genuinely don't know they are being one. That said, and I will cast this as a TMA-centric idea, sometimes there is a value in learning to just keep your mouth shut and your thoughts pure. Makes life simpler and a person much more happy.

 

[Flying Crane]

You’ve got your priorities straight. Don’t let your instructor stress you out.

My current instructor Is very skilled, but also pressures people to spend more time and money on his program (including camps, travel, and expensive rank promotions) than they should, and he sometimes says unkind things about students who decide to discontinue training for good reasons, reasons similar to yours.

One of his most senior instructors is a psychotherapist by profession, and in private conversation with me put it like this: “”Sifu is a businessman of course, but moreover, he doesn’t do second-person well, if at all.”

”What does that mean?”, I asked.

“It means he has little empathy” my friend replied. ”He can’t put himself in another’s shoes.”

Sounds like you instructor is cut from the same cloth.

I believe that is the definition of a sociopath.

 

[geezer]

I believe that is the definition of a sociopath.

...or a politician, but I digress.

 

[jks9199]

Your family and your finances should come first, and he should be able to recognize that, even if he can't understand it. You have kids, you have financial obligations... You can't simply dump the money to go to Israel or even down the block for a seminar if you don't have it.

Sorry you're dealing with this crap.

 

[Flying Crane]

...or a politician, but I digress.

Yes, there seems to be something of an overlap there. Some sociopaths seem to want to be politicians.