Challenge the instructor?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Prostar, Nov 25, 2019.

  1. Prostar

    Prostar Orange Belt

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    Ever have someone come in and challenge the instructor to fight? I know it sounds like something out of an old move but I know it can happen. It happened to me once.

    Some guy came in and challenged me to fight. Now this is a scenario loaded with liability issues. In that case my senior students stepped to the front and escorted the guy out. No questions asked.

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Sounds like it got handled appropriately. I would never take a challenge like that. Call the police if he won’t leave.
     
  3. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Maybe back in the 60s and 70s or whatever it was done for a genuine challenege. But these days it's way to risky. It could easily be someone setting you up to sue you with his mate with his phone filming it. The whole thing is stupid and if an instructor genuinely accepts to fight a random guy then they're stupid and deserve whatever punishment they get.

    I'm not a full time instructor but since I've been in school ive had idiots challenging me to fight to prove themselves. Usually it goes like this

    "Hey I challenge you to fight."

    Me: "no"

    I walk off.


    Sometimes this is added

    Them: what's the matter you scared?
    Me: yes

    I walk off.

    As I've said before fighting outside of a ring or a class is stupid and if you're above the age of 15 you shouldn't be getting into those situations. Obviously self defence is a different thing but I'm talking mutually agreed combat on the streets, that's dumb plain and simple
     
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  4. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    As far as the MA tradition, this should not be allowed.

    Everybody will get sick and old some day. It makes no sense for a 20 years old guy to challenge a 90 years old master no matter how good that master was before.
     
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  5. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

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    Apparently this used to happen quite often with the Gracies.
     
  6. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    I know you are referring to the early days when they'd take on all comers to prove their system. That's another thing altogether.

    On the other hand, in any grappling art, a challenge is fair game. And you can challenge someone much better than you without it being a problem. In my youth, I challenged wrestlers much better than I, including my coach. Almost always got whipped --absolutely always with coach Russo, but hey, it was a learning experience, right!
     
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  7. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    On the other hand, in any grappling art, a challenge is fair game. And you can challenge someone much better than you without it being a problem. In my youth, I challenged wrestlers much better than I, including my coach. Almost always got whipped --absolutely always with coach Russo, but hey, it was a learning experience, right!
     
  8. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    I'm assuming that this was a hostile challenge and not a friendly one. So my answer is. Only if it's Charlie Zelenoff. lol. I heard he went to jail. not sure for what probably for sucker punching someone and then claiming his 38 -0 record.
     
  9. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    I have never challenged my teacher. 7 of my students had challenged me in the past. I was young back then and I had accepted all those challenges.

    IMO, to challenge your teacher with the style that you have learned from him is one thing. If you can beat up your teacher, that just prove your teacher had taught you well. But to learn a different style from another teacher and then come back and challenge your old teacher is something else.

    One of my students went to train MT for 2 years, came back, and challenged me. After that day, I have never seen him any more.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
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  10. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Everyone challenges my instructor. It is called open mat.
     
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  11. Cynik75

    Cynik75 Yellow Belt

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    . This.
    When my instructror is preparing to competition he fights many of us. Once I tapped him out by kneebar. Half minute later he tapped me out by three different techiques at the same time. But those are not hostile challenges - its the part of training and helps the instructor to know better his students. There is many situations when student is better fighter than coach (especially for professionals), but the coach's role is not to be the best fighter in a gym. His role is to make his students better fighters. Both sides have to understand the rules of cooperation.
    Maybe the student can beat instructor in a direct fight but this is not a problem as long as the instructor can shows to the student gaps in his game and learn something new.
    Fighter in mot made by himself alone - his made by his coach and training partners. I was an MMA coach in small gym by 3 years and the very first day I said to my students "Today I can defeat any of you in fight, but I hope one day you all of you will be able to defeat me".

    There is not one easy solution for hostile challenge of your own student. Usually the best way in not to fight but sometimes student and sometimes instructor (especially in non-contact gyms) need the punch in the face to realize his own restrictions and skills level.
     
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  12. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Master of Arts

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    Not so much a direct challenge, but a bit of baiting.

    In my very first trial lesson in Kyokushin, we were training a drill and these two rough-looking youngish guys show up at the door. For a little while they just watched, smirking, then they started randomly calling out stuff and asking questions like "Do you guys teach street fighting?"

    The instructor said very calmly, "No we teach karate." They then said "Ah well we're street fighters, can we do some street fighting if we join?" Again, the instructor was pleasant and calm, and said "No, but we've got classes Tuesdays and Thursdays here and you're more than welcome to join in next time."

    They scoffed a bit, then eventually got bored and left.

    It was a bit unnerving, but I was super impressed with how the instructor handled that. Didn't get ruffled or escalate anything, even though they were clearly trying to bait a reaction and an excuse to step in, even though they were halfway in the doorway anyway.
     
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  13. Rat

    Rat 2nd Black Belt

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    I haven't seen anything but most of the instructors i have seen do sparring and sports so probably would accept a challenge if it legally checks out and the person isn't going to sucker punch them. If its part of the lesson anyway.


    I think even if you are getting up there in age you should still spar to be honest, not knockout, but light sparring now and then.

    I don't personally see the issue with it. Just treat it case by case basis and don't have too unrealistic expectations.
     
  14. RTKDCMB

    RTKDCMB Senior Master

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    In 32 years of training up to 6 days per week, never.
     
  15. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    It used to happen a few times a year back in the day, which was always fun. But that was back when there really weren’t many Dojo’s around and the general public really had no idea of Martial Arts. I haven’t experienced it since the early eighties.

    It was always a lot of fun. Since everyone training was always looking for more people to fight with - it was kinda’ like having pizza delivery.
     
  16. Giuseppe Stivala

    Giuseppe Stivala White Belt

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  17. Giuseppe Stivala

    Giuseppe Stivala White Belt

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    Hello. I think it is a common feel to like to challenge a master. In my experience it happened (as a student as well as istructor). I have to say it is umpleasent but it is very common.
     
  18. hoshin1600

    hoshin1600 Senior Master

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    I had a guy come into my dojo once. He said he wanted to see me about something ( I don't remember the exact quote) I said we were in the middle of class and to wait until after. He sat politely. I made it a point to have the class do some solid Uechi conditioning. After class i kicked all the students out and he wanted to show me his kata. After watching we talked about sparring and how the kata related. I picked his kata apart big time. He thanked me in an over the top way and left. Not sure to this day if he was just an odd duck wanting to get an evaluation or if he lost his nerve to fight.
     
  19. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

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    Yang Jwing Ming told a story of a guy walking in and challenging him to a fight once. He was teaching a Long Fist class at the time. He told the guy to take a seat and that he would be with him as soon as class was done. As he worked with his students on various strikes and joint locks the guy sat and watched. However Dr Yang was so busy teaching he did not pay much attention to the guy. When class was over, the guy was gone. Said he saw the guy on the street a couple times after that and all the guy did was say "Hello Master Yang" and keep walking by.
     
  20. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    A teacher stands on the mat and wait for his students to challenge him is one thing. A student knocks on teacher's front door, and demand a match in teacher's living room is something else.

    Fortunately in Chinese wrestling (SC), we have a traditional way to solve this problem.

    - When you put on your SC jacket, anybody with SC jacket on can challenge you, and you cannot refuse.
    - But when you put on your SC jacket, at the same time if I take off my SC jacket, you cannot challenge me.
    - When I see you put on your SC jacket and I still keep on my SC jacket on, that means I'll accept your challenge.

    IMO, this is a very nice ancient rule.
     

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