Police Pepper Spray Child

[MJS]

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/42449949/ns/today-today_people/

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_17780064?source=rss

The mother of an 8-year-old boy who attacked and threatened to kill teachers with a sharp stick is criticizing police for using pepper spray on her child.
But police say doing so probably prevented the 82-pound boy from injuring classmates, police and himself.
"Of all the choices they had, they probably chose the best option," said Steve Davis, Lakewood police spokesman. "There was no violation of policy."
Jefferson County Public Schools officials say they are seeing more children in preschool and elementary school exhibiting assaultive or threatening behavior.
"As a district we've been very concerned about it," said Polly Ortiz-Lutz, the school district's director of special education.
On Feb. 22, the boy, whose name was not released, got into trouble on the bus on the way to Glennon Heights Elementary School, Davis said.

​

 

[MJS]

Apparently this isn't the first time this kid acted like this, and given the fact that teachers barricaded themselves in a room, while this kid acted like a madman, is proof that a) he has some very serious issues, and b) I have to wonder whats being done to curb these violent outbursts. This, IMO, is a classic sign is future violent behavior, which could lead to someone getting seriously hurt or worse.

IMO, given the way this kid was acting, I have to wonder if 'talking this kid down' was the best option. I mean, going on what the article says, and yes, I know, we can't always take that as gospel, but it seems that he was beyond being talked to. Was he this violent the past 2 times? Article doesnt say.

 

[CoryKS]

If the kid gets mad and picks up a stick a year down the road, I don't think he'd stop and say "Wait a minute... last time I did this, they talked me down. Do I really want to do this?"

Pepper spray? Oh yeah, he'll remember. But I think it's important that they have a conversation with him afterward to make the lesson stick: If you threaten people with weapons, you get the pepper spray or worse.

 

[Empty Hands]

Given the nature of the pain involved in pepper spray and the threat posed by the child, active restraint was probably a better option. It certainly wouldn't sound as bad to the public at large. Then again, I wasn't there.

At least they didn't tase him, I guess that's reserved for the elderly and 7 year old girls.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Pepper spray is no big deal. Spray him again, sez I.

 

[CoryKS]

At least they didn't tase him, I guess that's reserved for the elderly and 7 year old girls.

And people who call them 'bro'. They hate that.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I dated a kindergarten teacher at a private school many years ago and mid-year she got a new student that had been expelled from several schools.. one for threatening the teacher with a knife. She had issues with him bringing in porno-mags to class and called for a parent teacher conference….what she got out of the conference was that this kid has no chance at all since his father thought it was all good and his mother was a complete idiot.

Look at where the 8 year old comes from and likely you will find the problem

 

[Archangel M]

"Active Restraint"....sounds nice, theory is nice...application? Not so easy.

 

[Empty Hands]

"Active Restraint"....sounds nice, theory is nice...application? Not so easy.

Granted, and 80 pound kids seem to have a magical ball-targeting ability. Nonetheless, the kid is still a kid. No one said life was going to be easy.

 

[MJS]

IMO, the thing with the 'active restraint' is how it also looks to the public. Funny when you see 4 cops trying to restrain a suspect...who doesnt wanna be restrained. Amazing how some people think that joint locks are a joke and ineffective, yet thats the first thing they say the cops should do instead of pig-piling the guy. Go figure. LOL. As usual, the cops are between a rock and a hard place all the time.

Me...I'll go with the OC.

 

[Archangel M]

Some condiment to the face (some screwballs actually spray some on food...yech) is worse than piling coppers on the kid..with all the kneeling and limb twisting and the appearance of giving a "beating"???

 

[Empty Hands]

Some condiment to the face (some screwballs actually spray some on food...yech) is worse than piling coppers on the kid..with all the kneeling and limb twisting and the appearance of giving a "beating"???

It may be the appearance of a beating, but it isn't a beating. Describing the pepper spray as a "condiment" is disingenuous - if that's all it was, then it wouldn't be effective, now would it? The pain and burning of pepper spray takes quite a while to go away. The pain of being held down or even the pain of a joint lock goes away the instant you stop struggling.

 

[Archangel M]

The risk of injury of one compared to the other is signifigant. One just makes you feel better.

 

[Archangel M]

The staff members were so afraid that they barricaded themselves in an adjacent office while the boy threw chairs and a TV at the door, Davis said. He was ramming the door with a cart. He then broke off a piece of wall molding.​

"I wanted to make something sharp for like if they came out because I was so mad at them," the boy said in an interview with 9News, which first reported the incident.​

The boy's mother, Mandy, told 9News that police treated her son like a common criminal. She didn't excuse her son's actions but said police could have talked him down as officers had done two other times when police were called to the school.​

But Davis said the longer police waited, the more likely it was that someone, including the boy, could be hurt. ​

"If we would have gone hands-on, there's a good chance there would have been someone hurt," he said. "It was something that had to be defused quickly."​

Read more: Woman criticizes Lakewood police for using pepper spray on her unruly son - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_17780064?source=rss#ixzz1IkyF7MJ9
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse ​

If that were my kid I would have preferred the OC to the risk of injury from the "hands on" approach. BTW OC is a foodstuff. Not very "tasty" when its on your face..been there more often than I liked...but it's far from the end of the world.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Some people would complain if they were to be hanged with a new rope. Pepper spray is temporary pain. Big hairy deal. Spray the kid.

 

[MJS]

It may be the appearance of a beating, but it isn't a beating. Describing the pepper spray as a "condiment" is disingenuous - if that's all it was, then it wouldn't be effective, now would it? The pain and burning of pepper spray takes quite a while to go away. The pain of being held down or even the pain of a joint lock goes away the instant you stop struggling.

While I see your point, try telling that to 99% of the pop. who already has zero clue of what a LEO does. I can only imagine that they'd question 2 or more cops holding this kid down, and somehow twist it into a beating, even if it wasnt even close. The OC will most likely get an immediate result, where as trying to fight with the kid, no you deal with risk of injury to the kid, from him struggling, and injury to the people holding him.

Furthermore, given the fact this kid was holding a sharp stick, OC is a better way to go.

 

[shesulsa]

I heard from another source last night that the child has expressed that he just feels that this is the way he is and doesn't think it's going to change - he has expressed himself in a calm manner about what happens when he goes into a rage.

I also heard he is now in a mental hospital getting assessed and hopefully treated. I hope that's the case.


As to the spraying:

I think we need to do this more often than shooting or tasing. I am aware that OC spray is not effective on some people - it MIGHT give a few seconds for restraint to be applied effectively, though, and this is a much more humane way of handling people with mental disturbances in episodes.

Teachers, police, parents ... no one can put hands on a child this young and not get sued for assault or excessive force. The school is very limited to what they can do.

Bottom line: I think the police made the right choice and would like to see this particular application more often with adults as well.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

ya I say spray the kid.. my son is 41 pounds, half this kids weight... my son and I wrestle around, and mess around all the time, and there are times when he will hit me, kick me, or if we are sword fighting with a stick he will get me and it can hurt... and thats when we are joking around having fun... I can imagine a kid twice his weight, with a sharp stick, mental issues, and pissed off to the point fo wanting to hurt someone would be formidable enough to deal with, the pepper spray option was kind in my opinion, if the cops had to jump on him and restrain him I would almost be willing to bet something would have gotten broken... no pepper spray was a gift, this kid better get his act straight or in several years we will be reading about him being shot in a similar situation when hes not 80 pounds but 160 pounds and has a knife.

 

[jks9199]

Given the nature of the pain involved in pepper spray and the threat posed by the child, active restraint was probably a better option. It certainly wouldn't sound as bad to the public at large. Then again, I wasn't there.

At least they didn't tase him, I guess that's reserved for the elderly and 7 year old girls.

I don't have any problems with OC here. Maybe next time, the two cops should take out their own sticks, and wallop the kid a few times to subdue him? Or the two cops who were each probably twice the kid's size try to tackle him? That's not a good way to get the kid -- or, more importantly to me, the cops! -- hurt, is it?

The pain and burning of OC goes away in about 30 to 60 minutes without decontamination. Quicker if it gets washed off. I'd say that the temporary pain is far superior to the injuries likely to be incurred if the kid was taken down by brute force.

Forcefully restraining a child is never a winning situation for the cops. No matter what they do, it always looks bad.

Oh -- and it's not part of a cop's job to get hurt. It's likely to happen sometimes -- but it's not a part of the job. OC, in this case, produced no lasting injury to cops or the kid.