Pay for your BJJ Certification

[cashwo]

My grandpa tells this joke all the time and I will share it here:

I was signed up for the Charles Atlas Muscle Course. After taking the course I decided to write a letter to him.

Dear Mr. Atlas,

Took course...please send muscles.

Thanks.

 

[James Kovacich]

It is without a doubt pathetic. Whats even more pathetic is that the reason these scams are able to be perpetrated is because most Americans would rather buy something than earn it! There are ALOT of non qualified "instructors" teaching "submission grappling" without credentials, fake or otherwise. I have an official Carlson Gracie Academy in Jamestown, NY. There is absoloutely NOTHING legitimate around here beside my academy yet I still only have 10 students!
There are MANY guys who teach a "grappling" class on Saturday here and there as well as "mixed martial arts coaches" who teach "submissions" that won't let me anywhere near their dojo. WHY?????? Because these people are not interested in legitamacy. They want to be the big fish in their small pond and not be exposed in front of their students as the charlatans that they are.
Its EASY to convince people that you are a blackbelt if they have no previous exposure to grappling. These guys often sport blackbelts and nobody is the wiser. I only have a purple belt from Carlson Gracie Sr HIMSELF, and most people would rather train under someone (anyone) with a blackbelt. WTF is wrong with Americans? Then they set up these bogus organizations to make each other bonafide and laugh all the way to the bank. They got it covered from every angle getting paid at every turn!!! Shrewd business men but couldn't hang with a REAL bluebelt!!!

Gusano, you seem to have a lot of built up frustration. You have some validity but your really only half right and maybe I'm being generous there.

A BJJ blue belt is not that great. Good but far from great. You're able to teach but really you're status is a coach too. You have 10 students as a purple belt, that is great especially considering the amount of money that is paid for BJJ.

In todays martial art world only the ignorant ones are not incorporating other arts. Grappling has been found to be an art that is needed but it by far is not complete by itself.

And BJJ is about "getting paid", you just need to be more patient, you're on the right track.

I do give you props for training under Carlson Sr. But I have news for you, some of the Gracies are guilty too. Why don't you ask Carlson Sr. or Jr. if you see them about Carlson Gracie Jr.'s "International Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Federation?"

It was a totally bogus home study course. They new that nodody could "teach themselves to blue belt level" within 6 months. Yet after 6 months they sent out letters to the Federation members telling them of their choice of 2 test dates AND THE TEST FEE WAS $1995.00.

I **** you not. I wouldn't sweat the simple stuff, you're doing OK.

 

[gusano]

Gusano, you seem to have a lot of built up frustration. You have some validity but your really only half right and maybe I'm being generous there.

A BJJ blue belt is not that great. Good but far from great. You're able to teach but really you're status is a coach too. You have 10 students as a purple belt, that is great especially considering the amount of money that is paid for BJJ.

In todays martial art world only the ignorant ones are not incorporating other arts. Grappling has been found to be an art that is needed but it by far is not complete by itself.

And BJJ is about "getting paid", you just need to be more patient, you're on the right track.

I do give you props for training under Carlson Sr. But I have news for you, some of the Gracies are guilty too. Why don't you ask Carlson Sr. or Jr. if you see them about Carlson Gracie Jr.'s "International Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Federation?"

It was a totally bogus home study course. They new that nodody could "teach themselves to blue belt level" within 6 months. Yet after 6 months they sent out letters to the Federation members telling them of their choice of 2 test dates AND THE TEST FEE WAS $1995.00.

I **** you not. I wouldn't sweat the simple stuff, you're doing OK.

I may indeed have some built up frustration but you seem to be a pompous prick. I have no knowledge of Jr.s business affairs as Carlson Sr is my professor. His association is called the "Liga Carioca de Jiu-Jitsu". I spend two weeks of every month living and training with Sr in Chicago. Jr is rarely there as he is busy doing seminars the world over. I know this much....Sr and Jr are not businessmen. They are professors of jiu-jitsu period. People have taken advantage of them and others using their name but I know that neither sells belts. Both are humble, honest, and generous to a fault. Thnaks for your words of approval and encouragement.

 

[James Kovacich]

you seem to be a pompous prick. Thnaks for your words of approval and encouragement.

Back at ya my friend. :uhyeah:

You really should mellow a bit. If somebody tells you something real and hits close to home, just "roll with the punches," no big thing.

I only told you what I did because even the 'best of them" have skeletons in their closet and I was one of them that they scammed in 1997.

But goods things do happen and that same year I began training in 1 of Joe Moreiras schools.

I don't doubt that they are humble. That is quite common of those from Brasil and Joe Moreira is as humble as they come.

 

[MJS]

Gentlemen-

PLEASE keep the discussion at a friendly and respectful level. If you're having a problem with someone, use the features that are provided here.

1- PM

2- Email

3- Ignore

4- RTM

Thank you

Mike

 

[Michael Billings]

Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

-Michael Billings
-MT S-Moderator

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Back at ya my friend. :uhyeah:

You really should mellow a bit. If somebody tells you something real and hits close to home, just "roll with the punches," no big thing.

I only told you what I did because even the 'best of them" have skeletons in their closet and I was one of them that they scammed in 1997.

But goods things do happen and that same year I began training in 1 of Joe Moreiras schools.

I don't doubt that they are humble. That is quite common of those from Brasil and Joe Moreira is as humble as they come.

All martial arts will have guys in it for the buck. In kenpo, we have the whole IKCA train and that Chief Red Butt clown. In BJJ, we have guys like Reylson Gracie, a cousin of the GJJ fad initiators who was in Newport Beach for years, charging exhorbitant fees for classes that instructed basics, but never really challenged students to perform under duress. I remember when he got off the plane, and showed up at Phil Halls in Westminster, CA, looking for some mats to buy for his new place. He also had a rep for two other distinctions:

1. If you got a solid blue belt or purple under one of the Gracies or Machado's, you could go learn from...and teach for..him for a brief time, and walk out a certified black belt in BJJ, signed by a Gracie (hot commodity in the early days). Couple of white boys who got tired of the Gracie politics took this route; would bail from Torrance, Santa Monica, or other locations, and sign up in Newport Beach. For years, many in the BJJ community refused to take them seriously, as they took the easy way out, versus staying the course with their original instructors until completion. Many have since demonstrated their sincerity through hard work and staying power, and are more accepted by the Brazilians.

2. If you were fresh up from Brazil, and needed a job, he would give you one, and slave-labor the heck out of you. First time I met Joe was when he was the FOB that Reylson had working for him. I was very happy for Joe when he started his own gig; he remains a hard-working player who can hold his head honorably, and a nice guy in a competitive field with lots of ill intentions and bad blood.

I think he moved to Nevada several years ago. For all I know, it's one of his own starting this whole "send me cash; I'll send you cert" thing. Rings consistent with his previous reputation and MO.

D.

 

[James Kovacich]

All martial arts will have guys in it for the buck. In kenpo, we have the whole IKCA train and that Chief Red Butt clown. In BJJ, we have guys like Reylson Gracie, a cousin of the GJJ fad initiators who was in Newport Beach for years, charging exhorbitant fees for classes that instructed basics, but never really challenged students to perform under duress. I remember when he got off the plane, and showed up at Phil Halls in Westminster, CA, looking for some mats to buy for his new place. He also had a rep for two other distinctions:

1. If you got a solid blue belt or purple under one of the Gracies or Machado's, you could go learn from...and teach for..him for a brief time, and walk out a certified black belt in BJJ, signed by a Gracie (hot commodity in the early days). Couple of white boys who got tired of the Gracie politics took this route; would bail from Torrance, Santa Monica, or other locations, and sign up in Newport Beach. For years, many in the BJJ community refused to take them seriously, as they took the easy way out, versus staying the course with their original instructors until completion. Many have since demonstrated their sincerity through hard work and staying power, and are more accepted by the Brazilians.

2. If you were fresh up from Brazil, and needed a job, he would give you one, and slave-labor the heck out of you. First time I met Joe was when he was the FOB that Reylson had working for him. I was very happy for Joe when he started his own gig; he remains a hard-working player who can hold his head honorably, and a nice guy in a competitive field with lots of ill intentions and bad blood.

I think he moved to Nevada several years ago. For all I know, it's one of his own starting this whole "send me cash; I'll send you cert" thing. Rings consistent with his previous reputation and MO.

D.

I knew Reylson was Joes Instructor but according to Reylson's site he does not certify. Maybe a smoke-sceen to cover up some tracks?

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

I knew Reylson was Joes Instructor but according to Reylson's site he does not certify. Maybe a smoke-sceen to cover up some tracks?

Likely, considering his history of otherwise-known stuff about the guy.

D.

 

[gusano]

Back at ya my friend. :uhyeah:

You really should mellow a bit. If somebody tells you something real and hits close to home, just "roll with the punches," no big thing.

I only told you what I did because even the 'best of them" have skeletons in their closet and I was one of them that they scammed in 1997.

AHH, so that explains YOUR reaction to MY original post. Because YOU are one of the people who makes it possible for people to perpetuate fraud by awarding bogus credentials. I guess it is you who should just "roll with the punches", no big thing eh? If people weren't so willing to pay money instead of earning their credentials and actually meritting them, then people would not be able to sell their wares as easily as they do. It is rampant in martial arts in general. This organization we are discussing doesn't necessarily belong to real bjj people. It could be some shrewd american who has never even set foot on the mat before, who is simply cashing in on lazy people with extra income. If you want to call out Carlson Gracie Jr as a scam artist or seller of belts, then speak up and be heard, but you better be able to prove that he is what you say he is. I do not know one person in the ENTIRE BJJ community who has ONE negative thing to say about Jr.

 

[Michael Billings]

Ignoring a Moderator's warning is not acceptable on MartialTalk and in this case led to a suspension. This was done by the Admin Team upon review of this thread.

-Michael

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Out of curiosity, when someone lays down a glove, how best might one respond to it? I know PM has been mentioned, but in some instances that leaves clever slights or pot-shots unaddressed. I've seen some obvious sniping go generally ignored, while other "justifiable(?)" sniping lead to suspensions.

How might we, as participants, respond appropriately in such a way that allows us to defend what we may view as the integrity of our position, without inviting disciplinary actions? (some people in various threads have said dense things, which seemed to warrant blunt and plain replies to that effect). I mean this respectfully, as I legitimately do not know (what an appropriate, but terse, reply should look like), and would like to help myself -- and fellow MT-ers -- avoid unecessary reprimands in the future.

Sincerely,

Dave Crouch

 

[MJS]

Hi Dave-

As I had mentioned in my post, there are a few options to take. I had suggested the Email and PM feature, so as to keep the discussions on the main board as civil as possible. Granted, this is not the end all-be all solution, as it can continue via those methods. Using the Ignore feature will prevent you from seeing anything that is posted by the person you ignored. As always, contacting one of the Mods. or using the RTM feature is another option.

Mike