T
OP
SammyB57
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #2
All I have to say is....
1) apply for a black belt and pay for it.
2) enter a major tournament at black belt level
3) get pwned.
Belts are just something to hold your pants up. In BJJ especially, it's all about skills. I think it would be something similar to this....
White = Junior High
Blue = High School
Purple = College
Brown = Master's
Black = Doctorate
On the mat, it's not hard to distinguish where someone's grappling skills are.
1) apply for a black belt and pay for it.
2) enter a major tournament at black belt level
3) get pwned.
Belts are just something to hold your pants up. In BJJ especially, it's all about skills. I think it would be something similar to this....
White = Junior High
Blue = High School
Purple = College
Brown = Master's
Black = Doctorate
On the mat, it's not hard to distinguish where someone's grappling skills are.
OP
The Prof
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #3
This sad charade has been played out for years by various individuals. What's even sadder is that some fool will pay the price for the belt and his students may pay the price with their lives.
Prof. Rick Riccardi
www.niseido.org
Prof. Rick Riccardi
www.niseido.org
OP
The Prof
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #4
SammyB57 hit the nail square on the head. Great post Sammy!
OP
Aaron Little
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #5
Wonderful. Just wonderful.
Simon Curran
2nd Black Belt
Hmmm,
kinda makes you wonder why the rest of us bother studying and earning rank...
kinda makes you wonder why the rest of us bother studying and earning rank...
OP
tmonis
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #7
This goes back to my earlier thread on Fraud. This is actually what I was talking about on that one. I feel your pain on this. And what even makes it worse then that is, There are some really Famous Martial Artist doing it...Selling out just for a buck or two. Master Ibrao (5 Forms to Black Belt) Fred Villari, Larry Tatum, International Kenpo Karate Connection....on and on and on.
Video Testing!!! But our tapes for X number of dollars $$$$....Learn the material....Send us a video tape...And we will make you a Black Belt in 2 months....All for just one low price of $395.99....lol
And this does not even count the number of people who are not famous doing it. Just like this website, there are alot of them out there that you can just pay a fee to get your Black Belt...Then they buy these things...open up shop somewhere and start teaching...Next thing you know is the students are getting hurt in real life on the street...The Fraud Instructor turns it all around and tells them...You must not have practiced good enough because my stuff works...
Prof. Todd:idunno:
Video Testing!!! But our tapes for X number of dollars $$$$....Learn the material....Send us a video tape...And we will make you a Black Belt in 2 months....All for just one low price of $395.99....lol
And this does not even count the number of people who are not famous doing it. Just like this website, there are alot of them out there that you can just pay a fee to get your Black Belt...Then they buy these things...open up shop somewhere and start teaching...Next thing you know is the students are getting hurt in real life on the street...The Fraud Instructor turns it all around and tells them...You must not have practiced good enough because my stuff works...
Prof. Todd:idunno:
OP
The Prof
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #8
Prof. Todd,
Since you obviously have a quite a bit of MA seniority, I am sure that over the decades you have seen plenty. What amazes me is that just when I think that I have seen it all, "a brand new one" emerges.
You mentioned Fred Villari, well he lives not too far from me. His schools in the South Flroida ares were all over the place. Almost all have closed down. There may be just one or possibly two still out there.
When I moved her 18 years ago, I visited one of the schools that was in the area. It was sad to say the least. But guess what, the guy is a millionaire.
I don't blame him for doing what ever he had to do to support his family, it's just too bad that many people paid for something that they really cannot use.
You, me and thousands of others could not do it that way. But then, that's us. Thanks for your post, I 100% agree with you. It was honest and to the point. Happy New Year!
Prof
Since you obviously have a quite a bit of MA seniority, I am sure that over the decades you have seen plenty. What amazes me is that just when I think that I have seen it all, "a brand new one" emerges.
You mentioned Fred Villari, well he lives not too far from me. His schools in the South Flroida ares were all over the place. Almost all have closed down. There may be just one or possibly two still out there.
When I moved her 18 years ago, I visited one of the schools that was in the area. It was sad to say the least. But guess what, the guy is a millionaire.
I don't blame him for doing what ever he had to do to support his family, it's just too bad that many people paid for something that they really cannot use.
You, me and thousands of others could not do it that way. But then, that's us. Thanks for your post, I 100% agree with you. It was honest and to the point. Happy New Year!
Prof
OP
BC99
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #9
The difference is: In Brazilian Jiu JItsu, if you say you are a Black Belt - someone will certainly try you on.
OP
Aaron Little
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #10
Yes, it is rather easy to pick out the fraudulent BJJ coaches. Just ask them to roll.
OP
tmonis
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #11
Prof.
You are totally right. I have seen more than my share. And all of them are laughing at me right to the bank. My hats off to them all who are able to do it. I had 2 commerical schools along time ago and found it to be one heck of a chore.
I would never take anything away from Mr. Villari because he is an awesome Martial Artist. However not being able to control all of his schools. Somewhere along the way it all got watered down and most of them closed.
The problem I have with the whole video testing / paying for a Black Belt thing is it gives people a false since of security. And it makes the whole thing not as creditable. You and I and many others have worked long and hard to achieve our goals.
But the real truth comes on the mat. The Belt really does not matter.
All of you have a great and wonderful New Year.:asian:
Prof. Todd
You are totally right. I have seen more than my share. And all of them are laughing at me right to the bank. My hats off to them all who are able to do it. I had 2 commerical schools along time ago and found it to be one heck of a chore.
I would never take anything away from Mr. Villari because he is an awesome Martial Artist. However not being able to control all of his schools. Somewhere along the way it all got watered down and most of them closed.
The problem I have with the whole video testing / paying for a Black Belt thing is it gives people a false since of security. And it makes the whole thing not as creditable. You and I and many others have worked long and hard to achieve our goals.
But the real truth comes on the mat. The Belt really does not matter.
All of you have a great and wonderful New Year.:asian:
Prof. Todd
Shogun
Master Black Belt
Yeah, in BJJ, sparring can solve everything. if someone doesnt know what they are doing, then there ya go.
But what if they have years of BJJ and/or wrestling, sambo etc training. then they may not be a black belt at heart, but they can at least hold there own.
as far as Video study.....I have used video study on many occasions, as well as going to several schools, and can honestly say there is no way someone with no experience in a school can pick up on these things. I think they may be able to work (and do work), IF what they are learning on the tape is the same as what they are learning in the dojo (supplements) and the Dojo teacher says they are learning it correct....OR....they travel frequently to the location of the tape teacher, and learn the material firsthand. I have used several HSC to supplement my training, and if I had not studied in a dojo first.... I would be completely lost.
with that being said there are many fraudulant and under qualified Dojos out there. Plus, I dont think studying a tape is getting people hurt. they would have got hurt had they not studied thetape anyway. unless they are picking the fights......and then.....cant help them there.
But what if they have years of BJJ and/or wrestling, sambo etc training. then they may not be a black belt at heart, but they can at least hold there own.
as far as Video study.....I have used video study on many occasions, as well as going to several schools, and can honestly say there is no way someone with no experience in a school can pick up on these things. I think they may be able to work (and do work), IF what they are learning on the tape is the same as what they are learning in the dojo (supplements) and the Dojo teacher says they are learning it correct....OR....they travel frequently to the location of the tape teacher, and learn the material firsthand. I have used several HSC to supplement my training, and if I had not studied in a dojo first.... I would be completely lost.
with that being said there are many fraudulant and under qualified Dojos out there. Plus, I dont think studying a tape is getting people hurt. they would have got hurt had they not studied thetape anyway. unless they are picking the fights......and then.....cant help them there.
Shogun
Master Black Belt
sorry to 2X post but this is a article from jiujitsu.net
</H2>So I'm sitting here puzzled over what my next column is going to be about only hours away from deadline, when all of a sudden I check my inbox and find the single most disturbing email I've ever seen (besides that one with the donkey and the...). The International Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Vale Tudo Association (IBJVTA) is offering the belt of your choice, along with a certificate stating that you actually are at the level you claim to be for the excellent price of somewhere between one and two hundred forty seven dollars. This means that you too can get your black belt using the good old "honor system" without ever having to dirty up a mat! If you'd like instructor certification you can get that for a mere $217.00 and if you want to fight vale tudo, just mail in the same amount and a handy dandy slip of paper that says you're qualified will show up in your mailbox! Naturally at the bottom of the application/advertisement is a disclaimer saying you release the IBJVTA from any and all responsibility should you, oh say choke someone to death after holding onto a triangle for too long, or in the event that you cripple a few small children by not letting go of your kneebars in time. If you want an extra copy of your instructor's certificate to put on your girlfriend's wall, you can purchase one for a scant twenty five smackers and everyone who comes over for a round of "behind the black belt's back" will be forced to stop and wonder if they aren't taking their lives in their hands.
To say this is absurd would be redundant. In my six years fiddling around with guys on mats and watching dudes in speedoes pound the crap out of each other, I've never heard of something so potentially destructive to our sport. I don't know exactly who this IBJVTA is, but if times are that tough in the BJJ community that we have to start handing out belts to amateurs to make ends meet, maybe we need to start a social security program. Let me urge you to email these shysters and tell them what a bunch of scum sucking bastards they are by providing their email address. Naturally they have no website because public advertisement of this nonsense would probably result in a lawsuit from Carlos Gracie Jr. The email address is [email protected]. Write your friends, instructors and cousins and tell them to overload these jerks inbox with hate mail for trying to tarnish our sport.
Now.
On the one hand, I can see how people would feel like they needed something like this. So many of us toil in obscurity, training hard on our own or with friends and having no validation for our travails. Some watch every instructional video they can find and pore over the techniques in GRAPPLING magazine or THE MASTER TEXT, all the while knowing there's no jiu-jitsu school within miles that could be of any assistance. But so what? I've toiled away in obscurity for years as have the guys I've trained with and the guy who taught us all. Anyone who's anyone knows that the key to validation is in display. If you want to teach jiu-jitsu, go enter the Grappler's Quest in the Advanced Division and surprise everyone by taking first place. If you want a blue belt, go to a seminar where an instructor can gauge you and award you what you deserve. If there's nothing near you, too bad! You don't need a belt for anything except a lever in gi competitions. I wear a white belt with pride when I'm forced to wear a gi because it shows that I'm eternally a novice and it shows that I really don't know a gi from a space suit. If somebody's that insecure in their abilities that they need to strap a belt around their waist and frame a certificate on their wall, then they have no business teaching anyone anything. If they feel they lack credibility because they lack certification, then they can get certified!!! I'm not certified to teach so much as an upa, but I do it anyway. I primarily do it because I need sparring partners and whenever I do, I explain my history and lack of official instruction. The people behind this charade should be flayed on a bed of coals. They're going to drag us down a scam a bunch of naive kids with their little yahoo paypal scheme. Disgusting...
Once again, I urge you to write and tell them how worthless they are as human beings at [email protected]. I doubt you'll get a reply, but they deserve a good savaging. For my part, I'm going to make it my business to find out who's behind this latest mail-order belt scam and give you all a name to put on your dart boards. Keep the filth out of our sport and enjoy your Labor Day folks. And, as ever, keep on rollin'...
Diami J. Virgilio
August, 2002
[email protected]
grappling_mandala
Green Belt
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2004
- Messages
- 148
- Reaction score
- 1
If only it were that easy.
Its really a shame what some people will do to make a buck! :angry:
Rather than work your butt off, with lots of sweat and mat time, people take the dishonest route and offer things like this.
Whats even worse, is that people actually give their hard earned money to fakes that offer this kind of garbage.
Mike
Rather than work your butt off, with lots of sweat and mat time, people take the dishonest route and offer things like this.
Whats even worse, is that people actually give their hard earned money to fakes that offer this kind of garbage.
Mike
Kembudo-Kai Kempoka
Senior Master
There was a time when there was only one place to get your BJJ: Torrance. Rank was easy to determine...level of expertise. If you could roll with the purples, the Gracie's would throw you a purple and say, "Here...wear this now". If you walked in wearing a purple and got tapped by a white, you either changed belts, or got laughed out of the academy.
Couple years later, there were still only about a dozen BJJ locations. Still easy to determine skill, because the inter-school competition was intense enough, that nobody wanted to be known as "the purple belt from XXX academy who got choked out by the blue belt from YYY academy." There were predictable differences in the levels of skill. I can remember being one of maybe three people in Huntington Beach who had a clue about BJJ; now there are several schools/clubs (some better than others), and just about every surf-punk on Main Street has some BJJ/Vale Tudo experience.
I remember one BJJ tournament at the Bren Events Center in Irvine, in which Wally Jay was in attendance, Rickson was hanging out, Machado Bros. kimono's were floating ni the crowd, Alan Goes was limping around on his ankle, and Carlos Jr. had flown up a bunch of his guys from Brtazil...a BJJ guy who (then, anyways) was percieved as having bought his rank was enrolling students in the competition. Everytime one of their names/school was announced, a resounding "Boooo" filled the building. That particular guy eventually went on to ally himself with some quality players/names, and turned out some MMA/NHB winners, earning his place among the "real".
The only reason quality controls worked was because the community was small, and self-policing. Now, BJJ has grown immensely, and is beyond the reach of this simple "everybody knows everybody" quality management style. Now, the machine is full of puffs who learn a couple of dismounts, a submission or two, and declare themselves instructors. I guess now the puffs have someplace to ratify their meager rankings.
I have a buddy I trained with from the early days; by old school definitions, he was white-to-blue with one of Rickson's old cribs (seasoned white belt, easily tapping the blue belts, but not showing up steadily enough to warrant a promotion). He was in Colorado recently at a seminar with people from around the globe, got called out by a brown belt in BJJ (from come guy with a Portugese name neither of us had heard before), and proceeded to own the guys hide in the snow banks of Colorado Springs. After losing the 2nd in a row of a "best 2/3" round, being man-handled easily, the brown belt stared at the ground in disbelief that he had been beaten by an older, out-of-shape white belt who hadn't been on the mat for years, while he -- a brown belt -- was an asst. instructor in his own school. Something to be said about the quality of the pre-McBjj dojo days? I think so. Something in there too about honoring the old ways of determining rank in BJJ via how well you do on the mat.
Regards,
Dave
Couple years later, there were still only about a dozen BJJ locations. Still easy to determine skill, because the inter-school competition was intense enough, that nobody wanted to be known as "the purple belt from XXX academy who got choked out by the blue belt from YYY academy." There were predictable differences in the levels of skill. I can remember being one of maybe three people in Huntington Beach who had a clue about BJJ; now there are several schools/clubs (some better than others), and just about every surf-punk on Main Street has some BJJ/Vale Tudo experience.
I remember one BJJ tournament at the Bren Events Center in Irvine, in which Wally Jay was in attendance, Rickson was hanging out, Machado Bros. kimono's were floating ni the crowd, Alan Goes was limping around on his ankle, and Carlos Jr. had flown up a bunch of his guys from Brtazil...a BJJ guy who (then, anyways) was percieved as having bought his rank was enrolling students in the competition. Everytime one of their names/school was announced, a resounding "Boooo" filled the building. That particular guy eventually went on to ally himself with some quality players/names, and turned out some MMA/NHB winners, earning his place among the "real".
The only reason quality controls worked was because the community was small, and self-policing. Now, BJJ has grown immensely, and is beyond the reach of this simple "everybody knows everybody" quality management style. Now, the machine is full of puffs who learn a couple of dismounts, a submission or two, and declare themselves instructors. I guess now the puffs have someplace to ratify their meager rankings.
I have a buddy I trained with from the early days; by old school definitions, he was white-to-blue with one of Rickson's old cribs (seasoned white belt, easily tapping the blue belts, but not showing up steadily enough to warrant a promotion). He was in Colorado recently at a seminar with people from around the globe, got called out by a brown belt in BJJ (from come guy with a Portugese name neither of us had heard before), and proceeded to own the guys hide in the snow banks of Colorado Springs. After losing the 2nd in a row of a "best 2/3" round, being man-handled easily, the brown belt stared at the ground in disbelief that he had been beaten by an older, out-of-shape white belt who hadn't been on the mat for years, while he -- a brown belt -- was an asst. instructor in his own school. Something to be said about the quality of the pre-McBjj dojo days? I think so. Something in there too about honoring the old ways of determining rank in BJJ via how well you do on the mat.
Regards,
Dave
Shogun
Master Black Belt
I say if your gonna do BJJ, find someone good. it is easy to determine. Pedro Sauer BJJ is one of my main arts now but there was a time when I hated all BJJ and everyone associated. It seemed all BJJ guys had three problems:
1. they couldnt recognize the value of other arts
2. refused to recognize that other Jujutsu styles came before them.
3. Non-Bjj guys could tap BJJ guys w/o Bjj training
regards,
Kyle
1. they couldnt recognize the value of other arts
2. refused to recognize that other Jujutsu styles came before them.
3. Non-Bjj guys could tap BJJ guys w/o Bjj training
regards,
Kyle
OP
getgoin
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #18
It was only a matter of time till it happened.
Kembudo-Kai Kempoka
Senior Master
True, and still sad.getgoin said:
D.
gusano
Orange Belt
It is without a doubt pathetic. Whats even more pathetic is that the reason these scams are able to be perpetrated is because most Americans would rather buy something than earn it! There are ALOT of non qualified "instructors" teaching "submission grappling" without credentials, fake or otherwise. I have an official Carlson Gracie Academy in Jamestown, NY. There is absoloutely NOTHING legitimate around here beside my academy yet I still only have 10 students!
There are MANY guys who teach a "grappling" class on Saturday here and there as well as "mixed martial arts coaches" who teach "submissions" that won't let me anywhere near their dojo. WHY?????? Because these people are not interested in legitamacy. They want to be the big fish in their small pond and not be exposed in front of their students as the charlatans that they are.
Its EASY to convince people that you are a blackbelt if they have no previous exposure to grappling. These guys often sport blackbelts and nobody is the wiser. I only have a purple belt from Carlson Gracie Sr HIMSELF, and most people would rather train under someone (anyone) with a blackbelt. WTF is wrong with Americans? Then they set up these bogus organizations to make each other bonafide and laugh all the way to the bank. They got it covered from every angle getting paid at every turn!!! Shrewd business men but couldn't hang with a REAL bluebelt!!!
There are MANY guys who teach a "grappling" class on Saturday here and there as well as "mixed martial arts coaches" who teach "submissions" that won't let me anywhere near their dojo. WHY?????? Because these people are not interested in legitamacy. They want to be the big fish in their small pond and not be exposed in front of their students as the charlatans that they are.
Its EASY to convince people that you are a blackbelt if they have no previous exposure to grappling. These guys often sport blackbelts and nobody is the wiser. I only have a purple belt from Carlson Gracie Sr HIMSELF, and most people would rather train under someone (anyone) with a blackbelt. WTF is wrong with Americans? Then they set up these bogus organizations to make each other bonafide and laugh all the way to the bank. They got it covered from every angle getting paid at every turn!!! Shrewd business men but couldn't hang with a REAL bluebelt!!!
