Parents tattoo kids....

[Carol]

Hypothetically, since we are talking an accountant who can bring in major players in the business world and you said that if their appearance was an unpleasant surprise you would fire the headhunter for not knowing the buisness' needs... when the need for someone Physically Appealing should come behind someone who can make the company *** loads of money... therefore it sounds to me as if you are putting personal prejudice ahead of what is best for the company.

Incorrect.

Here is why I would object.

There was no mention made of what I need as an employer, but lets say for sake of example that I do need someone that is very senior in the accounting field.

To start...there is a reason why many companies take a long time to hire people. Hiring managers are rarely given time to...actually hire and interview. Hiring isn't our job, its...something else. Accounting, enigneering, etc. An agency's job is to sell a candidate. There is a reason why we pay them the cash. I expect them to find good candidates and tell us their strengths and weaknesses before I have to take time out of my day. If they can't understand that, then how can they understand a complex fit of a senior candidate?

I can't even do a basic reference check on an agency candidate...that is all done by the headhunter. That is why I am paying them.

Headhunters charge a lot of money. Skilled professional contractors are typically billed at twice their hourly rate, a permanent placement comes at the cost of at least 20% of salary at hire. Why would I hire someone through an agency instead of using my HR folks that are already on staff? They are faster. Period.

This is a head hunter that expects at least a 20% take of a senior professional, and he can't even be bothered to chat with him in advance to see what he is like, what he wants (other than "something new") and why he's a fit for my team? If the agency can't take a senior candidate seriously then why should I? What are they doing to earn my trust or to understand my needs? Remember, I don't have time to hire people. I'm paying someone to sort and screen my candidates for me.

There are plenty of reasons why a skilled professional can be a wrong match. Accounting is a very complex field. The specialties could be wrong, the goals could be wrong, the personality could be wrong. He could be too quiet and shy for the boisterous bunch he's going to be working with, for example.

Companies/managers tend to stick with good headhunters, and good headhunters tend to stick around as long as their is money flowing through the account. Chances are, the individual been placing people at the company for longer than I have been there. The ones that I have done business with have worked the hardest to earn my trust. They have spent a day in the office with me seeing where my deficits are. They know my atmosphere. They know the environment, they are the ones that are consistently bring a very good match across my desk.

None of this has anything to do with the person's appearance. It has to do with the flow of business, and why the choice was made to bear the extra expense of a headhunter, and the efficiency at which that headhunter works.

Candidates have their choice as to who represents them. I would hope that someone with 20 years experience in their field cares enough about their career to carefully choose who they work with, and how they are going to be presented.

 

[Cryozombie]

Carol.

You are hiding a simple question behind a lot of technical jargon unrelated to the actuall issue. So Lets simplify with a Yes/No question.

Would you refuse to hire the most potentially profitable candidate for your company because he had visible tattoos or piercings?

 

[Archangel M]

The whole "answer my theoretical question" game is pointless. First off... I doubt that you are going to find many candidates who fit your little "what if". Like it or not, the odds of someone like that being able to move up through the corporate structure to have that kind of experience are slim to none.

It would be like asking me if I would turn down the best cop in the world for hiting simply because he has a facial tattoo and a mokawk. There just isnt one because no dept would pay to send one through the academy.

 

[Cryozombie]

The whole "answer my theoretical question" game is pointless. First off... I doubt that you are going to find many candidates who fit your little "what if". Like it or not, the odds of someone like that being able to move up through the corporate structure to have that kind of experience are slim to none.

It would be like asking me if I would turn down the best cop in the world for hiting simply because he has a facial tattoo and a mokawk. There just isnt one because no dept would pay to send one through the academy.

So what you are saying is that how someone looks is how someone looks, and they never change it? An experienced cop would never get fed up, burned out and change his appearance radically or an Executive would never get his hands tattooed while drunk and on the town with some former Fratboys from Yale?

Good to know!

The only reason to cry foul and say "but but but, its unlikey, it will never happen" is because you are afraid to admit that given the right circumstances, you have to admit either I am right, or you have prejudice against people with Tattoos and Piercings. Period.

 

[Jenny_in_Chico]

and you would be wrong

I know a LOT of welders that have hand tats.

they make more than YOU, ME and both of us combined, same with mechanics i know. Hell I know a couple bikers that are COVERED with tats, and run thier own custom cycle shop, they cleared almost 500K EACH last year in a crappy economy

you MIGHT have a point in the suit world, but that is a small, SMALL portion of the world.

there is more of us than there are suits in the world

Ahh...point taken. You're right, these are certainly money-making enterprises, and they are open to people covered in tattoos.

 

[Carol]

Carol.

You are hiding a simple question behind a lot of technical jargon unrelated to the actuall issue. So Lets simplify with a Yes/No question.

Would you refuse to hire the most potentially profitable candidate for your company because he had visible tattoos or piercings?

Prolly not. I've hired people with tats...most of the folks I have hired are guys that have served, and many guys that have served have ink.

However, a hiring decision is never that simple.

 

[Drac]

I had an excellent student in one Academy class..He would be a fine addition to any department. However he covered the tops of his hands with tats, and not even good looking professionally applied ones, they look like " jailhouse" tats..I tried to explain that he wouldn't get past the interview with the Chief unless he gets them removed, he just laughed saying that most people are not as small minded as I would like to think..He graduated with honors and 6 months of fruitless interviews later is in the process of having them removed..

 

[Twin Fist]

what kind of academy?

 

[Drac]

what kind of academy?

Sorry,The police academy...

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Bottom line here is the bulk of America is still conservative. If it wasn't, you'd see pink haired girls and mohawked guys behind the counter everywhere, not just Hot Topics, Spencers, Tattoo shops and the odd junk store.

Yes, one of the most powerful men in Hollywood sports blue hair. He can get away with it. (Dont remember the name, saw it on an insider show a while back).

I've gotten crap over my earrings, and they are small loops. I've gotten crap over my bicep tats showing just a sliver under short sleeve shirts and been told to wear long sleeves in 90' weather or don't bother showing up for work. I got **** over a mustache for petes sake. A discrete well kept stash.

Labor Class, it doesn't matter much. You can haul wood or dig a ditch, or pull crab, you can be the tattooed man, no one cares.

Banking, that's a different story. I knew a gal once, mohawk, tats, piercings, etc. Cleaned up real nice. Saw her bank manager portrait once, barely recognized her. Key here was, everything the bank cared about was where she could hide it easily, and her hairdoo was flexible. Punk on the weekends, exec by day. She wouldn't have had that option if someone had inked her where she couldn't cover it.

Some fields do care, and unless you are a real superstar (and be honest, most people aren't.) appearance matters significantly, more so during the interview process.

Lets add to this....age.
You walk into a store and ask for the manager, and you get a 18, 19 yr old. Older people do not see that as a good thing. Add piercings, ink and a "goofy hair style" and you've got a PR headache there.

Do I agree? No. I prefer to be judged on what I can do. My work speaks for itself.
But I've lost job opportunities over something as stupid as my hair was too long.

So, if you are going to compete, you need to understand the rules of engagement and comply. Today, that still means that the clean cut will have an advantage over the "unique".

What sane person would start their kids out with a disadvantage?

 

[Twin Fist]

Sorry,The police academy...

that makes sense, I have never seen a cop with hand tats. The little old ladies that police have to deal with would NOT look on that well.

 

[Twin Fist]

What sane person would start their kids out with a disadvantage?

absolutely, but should it be illegal?

being stupid isnt a crime

 

[Drac]

being stupid isnt a crime

If it was I would hold the record for issuing citations for Aggressive Stupidity..LOL

 

[Blade96]

My bro once had long hair, and when he was in his late teens/early 20's he used to work at a wendy's restaurant in st john's. The dress code there was that girls could have long hair as long as it was in a hair net or something. pony tail. But guys werent allowed to have long hair. My bro got fired because he wouldnt cut it. He then went to human rights comission, sued, and won.

If something so insignificant as long hair (thats a normal color like brown which is my bro's real hair color and my bro had gorgeous hair btw, it was so beautiful!) could lose out, in a RESTAURANT, a minimum wage job, you can imagine how some would feel about some tats.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Ohio man accused of tattooing toddler's rear end

Police say an Ohio man tattooed the letter "A" on the rear end of a 1-year-old girl visiting his home.Twenty-year-old Lee Deitrick of Louisville (LOO'-ihs-vihl) was arraigned Wednesday on a felony child endangering charge in Canton Municipal Court.
Authorities say there's no evidence the toddler's mother permitted the November tattooing. It's not clear what the letter "A" signifies.

http://www.buffalonews.com/260/story/952105.html

 

[Carol]

Ohio man accused of tattooing toddler's rear end


http://www.buffalonews.com/260/story/952105.html

OK, that's just sick.

 

[Twin Fist]

oh, he's pretty. If he gets jail time, he is in for some FUN nights..

 

[Gordon Nore]

OK, that's just sick.

But what if the toddler really, really wanted the tattoo?

 

[shesulsa]

But what if the toddler really, really wanted the tattoo?

I wonder how many future sex partner candidates will reject her because of it?

 

[MJS]

Thats a slightly different scenario, but I see where you are coming from. Lets put it in perspective from a reverse angle tho.

One of my duties back when I was working for Hot Topic was management recruiting and training for stores all over the U.S., in addition to recruiting and hiring sales staff for my store. Of course, being the type of store that they are (and especially at the time I worked there when the store's focus was still heavily goth and not so pop-trendy) they WANTED people who worked there to have a "look" that included piercings, tattoos, dyed hair, and an overall gothy/punky/rivethead look to them. However, when recruiting, knowing that yes, the look sold the atmosphere and generally made the managers and employees familiar with and more able to sell the products than a "normal" person... It never stopped me from recruiting in stores like Abercrombie, Journeys, Franks, or any of those places... because management and sales skills were the truly important part of that job. I doubt I would have been as successful if I had stuck to finding people with "the look". Know what I mean?

Sometimes you have just know that what you think appearance-wise isn't the best thing for your business.

Points taken. Now, you said that it never stopped you from recruiting in places like A&F, etc., so in your opinion, having tats, excessives piercings, etc., would fly in stores like that, as long as the skills were there?

Or: How well would an undercover vice cop do with a spotless uniform and regulation cop haircut?

Its interesting, because one of the narc. guys, at the PD, looks nothing like the typical cop. Long hair, scruffy face, wears clothing that doesnt give the 'clean cut' look, etc. Another has a shaved head and long goatee.

And:



That is correct. I also push the limits of the dress code on most days, and have even sat in on meetings with the CEO and VP of operations for the Hospital, as well as done work in their office in loud, cartoony button down shirts and black jeans (denim of any color is supposed to be against the dress code) and they don't seem to care. I think its probably about the quality of my work.

Possibly. Of course, could it be...(and I dont know, just asking) because its a different dept.? In other words...a few years ago, to pick up some extra cash around the holidays, my wife got a job at WalMart. She worked in the womens dept and on the registers when needed. A nice shirt and slacks was the attire. No jeans, no tshirts, etc. Yet, the guys who worked the stock room, the garden center, etc. wore jeans, and had half their *** hanging out. Same store, 2 different depts., 2 different dress codes.