Parents convicted of murder for using faith-healing on unconscious 11 year old daughter.

[MJS]

The parents should be locked up for a long, long time. Its one thing, if you have a sick or dying relative or friend, to pray. stay by their bedside and do your best to give them the will to keep on fighting. But if we stop and think about it, while we may feel that by doing that, it's actually working, I would think that its the treatment from the docs that is what helps the person.

Again, we want to believe that what we're praying for is really working, and that seems like the case here, but think about it...if someone got shot, its the medical team at the ER that is going to save that person, or attempt to save them, not prayer alone.

 

[Ken Morgan]

I’m making the assumption that the prosecution and the legal system did their due diligence, and proved that the people involved had some clue as to the severity of the situation.

I don’t think its different then the fights that pop up now and again with getting blood transfusions to children of jehovah witnesses.

I’m an atheist, but I also believe and defend the rights of people to believe in what they want. You want to believe in a god, go ahead, in a parthenon of gods, go ahead, you want to worship Elvis, go ahead, but do not, ever, let your beliefs seep out and affect other folks. I don’t have an issue with many things but do whatever you want, my taxes should not pay for, nor subsidize it and it can not affect others without their permission.

When it comes to a child, as a parent, it is always best to err on the side of caution and take the child to see a Doctor. Most parents are not Doctors, how can they possibly know the severity of the situation? I’m sure if this mans car was running not quite right, he would have taken his vehicle to a mechanic, somehow I doubt he would have prayed for his car to get better. Why the ****, would he not have taken his child to an expert? A Doctor? It’s not much different from putting a gun to the poor girls head and pulling the trigger.

Fry the Bastard.

Sadly the story reminded me of this comedy video, http://richarddawkins.net/article,4057,Homeopathic-AampE,That-Mitchell-and-Webb-Look

 

[Bill Mattocks]

The question is did the girl display symptoms for a long period of time or just on that day? How severe were her symptoms what other symptoms did she display that may have hinted the girl was Diabetic?

I think that any such circumstances were made moot by the statements made by the parents - they said they did not seek medical attention BECAUSE they felt that would be putting medicine before God.

They did NOT say "Well, if we had known she was that sick, we would have gone against our religious principles and taken her to the doctor."

That makes them liable for the consequences of their actions, in my opinion.

Whether they thought their daughter had the flu or diabetes or whatever is irrelevant. They refused to get her medical treatment because of their religious beliefs, not because of what they thought was wrong with her.

I wonder what they will say to God when they see Him, and what He will say to them.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

Sorry I rather not argue with people.

 

[celtic_crippler]

Their religeous beliefs are irrelevant. All parents/gaurdians are responsible for the well-being of the children in their care. Any parent whose negligence resulted in the death of their child should be equally prosecuted under the law.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Sorry I rather not argue with people.

You'd prefer their daughter died a preventable death than 'argue' with the parents? Interesting.

 

[arnisador]

The title of this thread is misleading. They did not use faith healing on her while she was unconscious.

From the second article in the first post:
Instead of calling a doctor when Kara lapsed into unconsciousness in her final hours of life, they prayed. They called family members and friends, asking for more prayers and even e-mailed a faith-healing minister asking for emergency prayers.

If you look at her symptoms they do not fit the symptoms of Diabetes:Excessive thirst[...]weight loss

Don't forget fatigue. From the second article in the first post:
[...]Kara, as the girl was known, grew increasingly tired and thirsty. Her appetite disappeared and she soon lost the ability to walk or talk. Prosecutors say her parents noticed the changes

Her symptoms as listed on the article fit more a stomach bug then they do Diabetes or Diabetic shock.

If your stomach bug renders you unable to walk, talk, eat, or drink, you need medical attention--an IV saline drip at the very least. If it renders you unconscious and unresponsive to attempts to wake you, you need immediate medical attention.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

You'd prefer their daughter died a preventable death than 'argue' with the parents? Interesting.

I rather not argue with you or anyone on this site. It is a waste of time.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

Arnisador I did not see the second article. I will not reply to your comments because I perfer not to argue with people on this site I have better things to do then that.

 

[Carol]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_v._Twitchell

I don't agree with the practice. However, I believe the law favors the parents.

 

[stone_dragone]

It is a tragedy that a child died due to her parent's lack of action.

It is criminal that similar minded people around the world will view them as martyrs for their faith and be willing to do the same thing.

My question is this:

If the person dying in their home was a 32 year old man who was sick and then couldn't talk, move, walk, etc, would they be guilty of negligent homicide?

 

[celtic_crippler]

It is a tragedy that a child died due to her parent's lack of action.

It is criminal that similar minded people around the world will view them as martyrs for their faith and be willing to do the same thing.

My question is this:

If the person dying in their home was a 32 year old man who was sick and then couldn't talk, move, walk, etc, would they be guilty of negligent homicide?

Could be, if they were legally responsible for that 32 year old man's care.

That's the defining issue: being legally responisble for someone's care.

 

[ginshun]

This case has literally almost happened in my back yard. I am glad to see that it has gotten national attention.

I personally agree with the verdict. Pray for your kids all you want, but when it is obvious that they are gravely ill, take them to the damn doctor.

Another unfortunate thing is that I am pretty sure the lawyers have said that both verdicts (the mothers and the fathers) will be appealed. I have a feeling this is far from over.

 

[Ken Morgan]

I personally agree with the verdict. Pray for your kids all you want, but when it is obvious that they are gravely ill, take them to the damn doctor.

Outside of a few cuts and bruises, a runnie nose and a few other common, obvious illnesses, you should alway err on the side of caution with a child and take them to a Dr.. Kids can not always verbalize whats wrong with them and as adults we always tend to minimize our own illnesses.

I'd rather go to a Dr and get told its something simple and stupid, then to make a huge error in judgement and regret it forever.

 

[jarrod]

i wonder if the christians who believe in withholding medical treatment from children are some of the same ones who think abortion is murder? just a thought.

jf

 

[Ken Morgan]

i wonder if the christians who believe in withholding medical treatment from children are some of the same ones who think abortion is murder? just a thought.

jf

Isn’t religious hypocrisy simply wonderful? Gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling all over.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

Ahhhhh, now I get it. Charging these parents with some form of murder for not taking their child to a medical expert in time is within the governments mandate but providing information on how Not to catch a fatal STD is just an invasion of the Holy Grail of family structure, most not Ricky-tick . And that is a hypocritical stance. ( Am I close? In the ballpark, near the stadium)
lori

Although not exactly the example that I would use, you are essentially correct.

It is interesting that children should be able to make medical decisions without the input of their parents, but we will hold parents responsible for not getting them "appropriate" medical attention. How is a parent to know what they can and cannot do with their children when the government continues to give inconsistent messages to them?

So when a parent makes a decision based on their belief system, we judge them according to what standard?

But then again, we get the government that we deserve. And if the people are inconsistent, how can we expect the government to be better.

 

[Carol]

Although not exactly the example that I would use, you are essentially correct.

It is interesting that children should be able to make medical decisions without the input of their parents, but we will hold parents responsible for not getting them "appropriate" medical attention. How is a parent to know what they can and cannot do with their children when the government continues to give inconsistent messages to them?

So when a parent makes a decision based on their belief system, we judge them according to what standard?

But then again, we get the government that we deserve. And if the people are inconsistent, how can we expect the government to be better.

I was reading up on the case online, and it seems this case nearly resulted in a hung jury. It was reported that one of the reasons why this was a difficult case to decide was because Wisconsin has conflicting laws on the issue.

 

[Tez3]

Although not exactly the example that I would use, you are essentially correct.

It is interesting that children should be able to make medical decisions without the input of their parents, but we will hold parents responsible for not getting them "appropriate" medical attention. How is a parent to know what they can and cannot do with their children when the government continues to give inconsistent messages to them?

So when a parent makes a decision based on their belief system, we judge them according to what standard?

But then again, we get the government that we deserve. And if the people are inconsistent, how can we expect the government to be better.

At what age are children legally adult and allowed to make their own decisions?


In some countries such as France it's illegal not to aid someone who needs help so watching a 32 year old die without medical aid is an offence just as it would be watching a child die. The law is very clear and doesn't make allowances for religious beliefs. Someone needs help you have to get it full stop.

 

[seasoned]

i wonder if the christians who believe in withholding medical treatment from children are some of the same ones who think abortion is murder? just a thought.

jf

Nice thought, but the unborn are even more vulnerable then the ones, in this case. Bill is right, pray, while seeking medical help. In the unborn, this, in many cases, is purely selfish. But, I digress.