Oww! Thank you sir!

[Shaolinwind]

Until today, I've never thanked anyone for cutting off my oxygen supply.

Today I learned some more Eagle Claw locks. My master demonstrated on me a fantastic locking & choking techniqe. Ouch! Not unbearable but still, it hurt quite a bit. It's the same with a lot of the locks we do. The Eagle Claw seems to work anywhere you grab someone with it, so even if you did a move wrong it still smarts. My wrists sustained some decent bruises doing this stuff.

I'm no masochist of course, and I don't have a particularly high threshold for pain. Recently it's occured to me just how effectively pain helps me understand a technique as far as how to properly execute and how effective it is on an opponent.

To me it's like pain and discomfort in training are not just things to endure but also things to help drive several tactical and philisophical lessons home.

Does anyone else feel that discomfort or pain enhances their training in different ways?
Or, when teaching do you consciously do things to students that "smart a little" as part of your teaching?

 

[Spook]

I've never used pain to get a point across to a student and never will. I feel that there is always a better way for a student to understand and if i can't find that, then i'm not doing my job.

On the other hand when i was learning Wing Chun i always dropped my woo sau (guarding) hand until a few strikes made contact with my face. Ever since i always made sure i had my hand in propper position to guard my face.

As an instructor i would never intentinaly harm my students.

 

[arnisador]

"I gotta feel it to believe it" has always been my philosophy. I always want the technique demonstrated on me.

 

[Andrew Green]

If no one ever feels any pain, how do you know anything you're doing is at all effective?

 

[dubljay]

Like any teaching method its effectiveness is subject to those to which it is applied. As for myself, I have a greater appreciation for a technique after I've been smacked, kicked, tossed, beaten and draged across the mats a few times. When teaching techniques to new people I ran across both sides of this; some students prefered the contact, others did not. If this method of teaching/learning works for you then stick with it, but do not neglect the issue of safety.

-Josh

 

[MJS]

Until today, I've never thanked anyone for cutting off my oxygen supply.

Today I learned some more Eagle Claw locks. My master demonstrated on me a fantastic locking & choking techniqe. Ouch! Not unbearable but still, it hurt quite a bit. It's the same with a lot of the locks we do. The Eagle Claw seems to work anywhere you grab someone with it, so even if you did a move wrong it still smarts. My wrists sustained some decent bruises doing this stuff.

I'm no masochist of course, and I don't have a particularly high threshold for pain. Recently it's occured to me just how effectively pain helps me understand a technique as far as how to properly execute and how effective it is on an opponent.

To me it's like pain and discomfort in training are not just things to endure but also things to help drive several tactical and philisophical lessons home.

Does anyone else feel that discomfort or pain enhances their training in different ways?
Or, when teaching do you consciously do things to students that "smart a little" as part of your teaching?

I think that its important that a student feels how a tech. is actually going to work. However, safety still needs to be a key part of this. IMO, its not productive to injure a student just to prove that the tech. is going to work. This is especially important when dealing with air supply or the throat. An improperly applied choke can lead to some very serious injury.

Mike

 

[47MartialMan]

I rather use two term in describing the practices of feelings to learn certain methods:
Pain/Discomfort


Sometimes a issue of pain/discomfort is enough to know exactly what or what not to do. Even in injuries, after experiencing pain/discomfort, the learning application is greater.

Take a infant. They have to learn about pain/discomfort before processing information on what not to do again.

Pain/discomfort, to a degree, is helpful to complete understanding-IMHO.

 

[ginshun]

I think its good to feel the pain of a technique, as long as it is being done carefully. Its more effective to do the technique at maybe half power, so that you can still feel it, but not to the point were it actaully causes damage than it is to just show the motion and not actually feel anything. That is my opinion anyway.

 

[Shaolinwind]

some students prefered the contact, others did not. If this method of teaching/learning works for you then stick with it, but do not neglect the issue of safety.

-Josh

Naturally, I use great caution at all times.

Plus I don't have any insurance. :lol:

 

[dsp921]

I like to feel the pain caused by techniques I'm learning. We go hard enough so it hurts, but don't go so far as to injure. Can't learn to swim without getting wet....

 

[dubljay]

Until today, I've never thanked anyone for cutting off my oxygen supply.

Today I learned some more Eagle Claw locks. My master demonstrated on me a fantastic locking & choking techniqe. Ouch! Not unbearable but still, it hurt quite a bit. It's the same with a lot of the locks we do. The Eagle Claw seems to work anywhere you grab someone with it, so even if you did a move wrong it still smarts. My wrists sustained some decent bruises doing this stuff.

I'm no masochist of course, and I don't have a particularly high threshold for pain. Recently it's occured to me just how effectively pain helps me understand a technique as far as how to properly execute and how effective it is on an opponent.

Since you started this thread discussing chokes I think you should have a look at this article on Mr. Labounty's website.

http://thesigung.com/constriction.html

Food for thought...

Josh

 

[kempo-vjj]

definitely you need to experience to know what your dealing with. But also it is very important for who ever you are training with, so that you dont drop increadily overpowered lock onto somebody and injurying them. In my dojo we also work with the kids and they can sometimes use a little to much strength with technique and then ouch!

 

[Spook]

Can't learn to swim without getting wet....

More like can't learn to swim without knowing what its like to drown....lol! Teaching to disscomfort so a student understands the ability of the move is a useful learning tool.

However there are many poor instructors and students that use pain to embarrass, put a student in their place, or bulid their own egos. When going to a school or looking for one it is important to make that distinction and to not belive blindly that the pain you are experiencing is benefiting you. Safety of students should always be foremost in an instructors mind. Always make sure that there is a true purpose and application to the pain/discomfort you experience. Oh course.. just my opinion.

 

[Ceicei]

I've heard it said, "It is better to learn now how it works in the dojo than to learn how out there when you actually need it."

- Ceicei

 

[Damian Mavis]

Pain and dinjury are 2 completely different things. An instructor should never injure a student but pain is an absolute must for all martial arts training or the instructor is doing a miserable job.

Chokes, submissions, pressure points.... the only way you know if you have learned the technique is if your training partner acknowledges the pain, also you will never know the effectiveness of a technique if you dont feel the effects yourself. As an instructor I usually do a submission/pressure point on a student to a low degree to show the pain and effects if their training partner cannot do it, but never to the point of injury. As for strikes, I dont and nobody else needs to get punched in the face or kicked in the head/groin/knee to know that it is going to hurt.

HOWEVER, and this is where I and many other instructors have a disagreement..... I believe the pain incurred during sparring and training is essential for the mental benefits of martial arts to take hold. You must feel pain to overcome the fear of pain. But once again hopefully not injury although accidents happen all the time in all physical activities. Pain in training strenghtens your character, toughens your mind and body and alleviates fear. I was a very soft adolescent, full of fear of the unknown and fear of getting hurt. Now I dont even register pain unless I know I've been injured. Back when I started, every little booboo and bump and bruise was a major event and it scared the crap out of me, you need to overcome that or your martial arts techniques are useless, fear will neutralise your skills.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[Spook]

Well said Damian Mavis.

 

[rutherford]

Agreed, well said Damian Mavis. Feeling proper intent and a bit of pain is essential. I have a t-shirt that admonishes my training partners to Hit Hard!

One of the essential lessons training teaches is the difference between pain and damage. Pain is something we learn to work through, we expand our threshold and the levels that we're comfortable with.

Damage is something we try to avoid at all costs. As the person receiving, it's important to take note of the kinds of things that will cause damage and learn not to try and fight through them. Being injured in training only reduces your ability to train.

 

[karatekid1975]

As for myself, I have a greater appreciation for a technique after I've been smacked, kicked, tossed, beaten and draged across the mats a few times.

Hehehehe same here I like being my instructor's demo dummy LOL. If I don't get a bruise during sparring, then I wasn't doing my job (kicking, blocking, ect hard enough LOL ... depending on my partners that is).

As far as teaching techs and safety, there is the universal sign of pain (as one of my instructors put it) ... TAP! If it hurts, tap. It's up to you how far you want it to go (of course, there is a safety limit also).

 

[Adept]

Does anyone else feel that discomfort or pain enhances their training in different ways?
Or, when teaching do you consciously do things to students that "smart a little" as part of your teaching?

Yes and yes. If I'm showing someone something, and then getting them to practice it on me, I want them to hurt me. Not really hurt me, but hurt me enough that I know they've got the technique right.

When I'm showing it to them, I do it so it hurts just a little, so they know what it is they will be trying to do, and which part of someone they will be trying to hurt.

 

[Sin]

I agree that you have to feel the technique being done to you before you can properly execute it yourself. Its not the pain, its just the understanding of how the techniqe is executed. Kinda like being in the other guys shoes and feel and think what he is thinking.