Opinion needed on a fighting system

[wingchun100]

If she gets into street fights on a regular basis (to say nothing of "every day"), she has very poor judgment, and isn't someone I want to learn anything from. Not even physical fighting skills.

I posed that question as a joke. I was trying to come up with something that might explain how someone with only a year and a half of experience could be qualified to teach ANYTHING. The only thing I could come up with is if she packed a lot of real-world application into that short amount of time.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The OP's question was about our opinions on a "fighting system," not on a "de-escalation system." Therefore, unless the woman with 1.5 years of experience has been in a lot of fights for that short amount of time, I was advising him to steer clear.

We don't know what her prior experience is. If she has some effective training and experience prior to that, including techniques and principles that align with this system, then a year and a half is perhaps sufficient for her to be able to transmit the key elements.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It is easier to tell with fighting because you punch kick and grapple under pressure in training. You see it work or not work.

You don't really competitively train talking. The best you get is pretending to deescalate. But is has no real effect on the outcome.

If you look at sales. The take their talking techniques. Apply them. Succeed or fail. Then refine those techniques. Then you pay the big money to a guy with the proven track record.

Real skills.

The martial arts version is like banging two rocks together.

This is a big part of the problem for teaching these things. No matter how hard we try, we simply cannot accurately simulate in a controlled environment how these work (or don't). The techniques that work depend upon activating and bypassing parts of the brain, cognitive processes, and such. Since the brain we'd expect to deal with (in cases where de-escalation applies) would be under the control of the limbic system (emotional hijacking), we'd have to figure out how to get a student totally pissed off and then use the de-escalation techniques to try to avoid them hitting us. As you said, not really an option.

We don't, however, have to depend only upon sources like Verbal Judo. Psychologists study these exact problems for us, so we can draw on what they've learned. Their findings will draw from controlled environments (lab experiments) and reviews of real-life scenarios. They can give us more than a guess as to what is likely to work. I'm actually working on a review of the research in these areas, looking for material to use in teaching about cues, de-escalation, exiting a physical confrontation (what I refer to as "late de-escalation"), etc.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It depends. It depends on her career and what she means by fights. I use certain martial arts techniques almost everyday (locks and such), and then less often but still regularly, strikes and takedowns due to my career. I then use to tactics, mindset etc taught in these systems every day. Some careers, LEO, Corrections, etc mean that you may simply not have the option to avoid conflict. If I am not mistaken the "train the trainer" for this particular system is only available to active LEO and Corrections.

Also these systems, in total, also use "target hardening" (proper use of observation, keeping in my tactical considerations etc) to try an avoid the situation from becoming a fight. Now whether the instructor here will go over those skills in a seminar, that is the bigger question.

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This is a reasonable expectation. Even LEO's and bouncers don't normally actually get into fights every day - meaning you probably don't get someone actually attacking every day, so much as you get someone resisting you (which is why the locks come into play so often).

 

[Justin Chang]

One issue with evaluating classes on these is that most of those skills don't require the in-school practice levels that physical skills require. If I spent even half of my time teaching those skills, I'd be over-teaching them. Many self-defense instructors do teach some or all of those topics. Many of us could do more (myself included - I'm in the middle of re-working parts of my curriculum to that end).

I agree you wouldn't be spending an entire seminar on these issues but in my experience they have been either neglected completely or just glossed over especially in regular martial arts schools. In my experience they never taught any deesculation techniques, verbal Judo, awreness drills, etc. in martial arts training. The only place where I received deesculation training was in the Guardian Angels, even as a security guard they don't teach you any deesculation which is pretty sad.

 

[Justin Chang]

I'm actually working on a review of the research in these areas, looking for material to use in teaching about cues, de-escalation, exiting a physical confrontation (what I refer to as "late de-escalation"), etc.

Once you finish your review I would love to read it!

 

[Justin Chang]

I posed that question as a joke. I was trying to come up with something that might explain how someone with only a year and a half of experience could be qualified to teach ANYTHING. The only thing I could come up with is if she packed a lot of real-world application into that short amount of time.

Someone else mentioned earlier that perhaps the train the trainer course was only available for LEOs so perhaps she only had a year and a half experience in SPEAR but years of law enforcement exerience prior, who knows?

 

[wingchun100]

We don't know what her prior experience is. If she has some effective training and experience prior to that, including techniques and principles that align with this system, then a year and a half is perhaps sufficient for her to be able to transmit the key elements.

Right, but this particular response was a follow-up to something a previous poster had said where he was criticizing these kinds of seminars for always being about the physical techniques rather than de-escalation,. My point was simply that the OP asked specifically about the fighting system.

 

[wingchun100]

Someone else mentioned earlier that perhaps the train the trainer course was only available for LEOs so perhaps she only had a year and a half experience in SPEAR but years of law enforcement exerience prior, who knows?

Yeah, good point.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Once you finish your review I would love to read it!

It won't be terribly organized, but I'll be happy to share what I find.

 

[wingchun100]

It won't be terribly organized, but I'll be happy to share what I find.

I would like to see it, organized or not.