Not the best of time for the |Catholic Church

[Carol]

put me down for a pint.....Guiness my goodness!

Me too. You think I'd miss a chance to see the three of you duke it out?

 

[Ken Morgan]

Me too. You think I'd miss a chance to see the three of you duke it out?

and who would you be cheering for Hun?
Oh cheerleader uniform????

 

[jks9199]

Actually they are only required to have 2 years of Philosophy, and 4 years of Theology. In many cases a Priest will have 4 years of Philosophy, but it is not required. (They are required, in the US only, to have a 4 year Bachelors degree before going to Seminary, but only 2 years (such as an Associates Degree) need to be in Philosophy.

Additionally, some religious orders have different requirements. In brief, there are two different types of priests in the Catholic Church; diocesan and those who belong to religious orders. (As a sidenote, diocesan priests do not have to take a vow of poverty.) Each order sets its own training curriculum for priest-brothers.

 

[Carol]

and who would you be cheering for Hun?

What, tell you in advance? That would be no fun.

Oh cheerleader uniform????

I'm a bit too zaftig to get away with that. Now a dirndl on the other hand...is a bit more forgiving of the extra curves. :lol:

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Hey anytime....someone.....wants to organise a Toronto MT get together, I'm in!

They have poutine in Toronto? If so, I'm totally there. Love Canadian beer, but I haven't had a drink since May of last year (diabetes), so I'll be a three beer man. Drink one, spill one, give one away.

 

[Blade96]

But I have been on numerous occasions been given bibles, been told that people are praying for me, been told I am going to hell, and have been the target of people who try and talk me out of my “false” beliefs. I have never done that to them.

How about the ones who deliberately corner you, imprison you pretty much and wont let you leave? OH yeah had that happen to me too along with what else you've said.

The mormons who were giving away bibles and i was chatting with a few about their beliefs in a hallway at univ. and I didnt want a bible so i went to leave. Some douchenozzle mormon stopped me in the hall and no matter which way i turned he wouldnt let me go. I only got away because his cell phone rang and he had to answer. This was a couple years ago.

But.....Most of the friends I have had have been religious. and they were/are the sweetest people.

religious people can be very nice. Your best buddies.

And some can be evil. Like all things I suppose. Doesnt mean I agree with religious beliefs though.nor should i have to.

But - interestingly, I have never had an atheist give me a hard time because I towards agnosticism. Maybe I havent met a bad atheist yet. Dunno. I'm sure they are out there, though.

 

[pmosiun1]

It is crazy some of you here are defending the church, what if you or your children the one being molested?

 

[dbell]

Additionally, some religious orders have different requirements. In brief, there are two different types of priests in the Catholic Church; diocesan and those who belong to religious orders. (As a sidenote, diocesan priests do not have to take a vow of poverty.) Each order sets its own training curriculum for priest-brothers.

But, the requirement for 2 years of Philosophy and 4 years of theology are Canon requirements, be it an Order or Diocesan priest that is ordained. As long as those time requirements are met, any other added requirements may be placed as well.

 

[dbell]

It is crazy some of you here are defending the church, what if you or your children the one being molested?

I would still, hopefully, defend the Church, but not the person doing harm to my child. That person would reported to the police, THEN the Church. And I wouldn't let the Church cover it up. The Church would not be the entity harming my child, the person is. The Church may be protecting, to an extent, the villain, but they are not to blame. And if I let them protect the villain it is my fault, and the legal systems fault.

 

[Ken Morgan]

It is crazy some of you here are defending the church, what if you or your children the one being molested?

Umm I really didn’t see that. I seen people defending their religion, but I never seen anyone defend any of the people who committed or cover-uped the atrocities.

 

[Carol]

I would still, hopefully, defend the Church, but not the person doing harm to my child. That person would reported to the police, THEN the Church. And I wouldn't let the Church cover it up. The Church would not be the entity harming my child, the person is. The Church may be protecting, to an extent, the villain, but they are not to blame. And if I let them protect the villain it is my fault, and the legal systems fault.

Personally I am not even content with that.

This is pasted directly from the website of my diocese.

http://www.catholicnh.org/child-saf...-protect-children/how-to-report-sexual-abuse/

If you or anyone you know has been sexually abused as a minor. . .

If you or anyone you know has been sexually abused as a minor by a priest, deacon, member of a religious institute, or Church employee or volunteer, we encourage you to report the matter to the Division for Children, Youth & Families (“DCYF”) of the State of New Hampshire at (800) 894-5533 and/or local law enforcement.

They aren't saying to report it to the church. They're saying to call the law and report it to the state. I respect that highly.

Church Personnel Reporting Requirements

Church personnel who suspect a minor child has been sexually abused by an employee or volunteer of the church must make a report to DCYF, local law enforcement and the Delegate for Ministerial Conduct.
If the alleged victim is no longer a minor, church personnel must make a report to the Delegate for Ministerial Conduct, 603-669-3100.
Mandatory Reporting Requirements for Church Personnel
Requisitos De Denuncia Obligatoria - En Español
Those reporting requirements and the procedure are also contained in Promise to Protect, Pledge to Heal: The Protection of Children and Young People: Policy and Procedures

Now here is what I don't like.

In the middle of an English-only web site is one link in Spanish.

What about the Spanish speaking members of the community? I know my city celebrates Mass in at least 3 languages other than English, wouldn't that be a good indication that there may be people in the Diocese that aren't fluent in English or may have trouble navigating an English-only website...if they knew to go there to begin with? (I don't know the answer but I plan on asking).

 

[Bruno@MT]

The "Known Nothing" Party was an anti-Catholic political party. Jefferson hated Catholics and many states devised loyalty oaths for elected officials that attempted to ensure that Catholics even if elected could not take office.

To be honest, I can see the sense in that.
After all, devout Catholics are supposed to heed the words of the pope. But an elected official is supposed to heed the words / wishes / needs of his electorate. You cannot serve 2 masters.

I realize the same is basically true for any religious representative, but the difference with RC is that the pope is an embodiment of authority.

Hasn't been the case in the USA.

We grew up in a different culture. The reason I mistrust the Catholic clergy is that here, they really wielded political influence, even at the highest levels. My feelings are not knee jerk reactions but things I thought about before making up my mind.

Let me give you an example; one of many.
In 1990, our previous king (boudewijn) refused to sing into effect the abortion laws because of his religious beliefs. (Approving the stationing of US nuclear missiles in Belgium was apparently not against his beliefs).

Anyway, a law needs to be signed by the king to become effective. His signature does not indicate approval or not, but a guarantee that the laws have been created in a democratic process according to the requirements of the constitution. He refused to sign despite the fact that the creation of those laws had fulfilled all requirements.

Technically, he would have had to resign at that point according to the constitution but he didn't fancy that either. So the prime minister consulted with a constitutional lawyer, and they came up with a loophole that allowed them to dispose of the king for 1 day and pass the laws correctly. Whether this was legal or not depends on whom you're asking and the interpretation of technicalities.

Anyway, near the end of his life, Boudewijn had also indicated that he wanted to be succeeded by Prince Filip (who is at least as devout as Boudewijn was) instead of Prince Albert (who was, as they say, a man who enjoys life). When Boudewijn died sometime later, the prime minister decided (rightfully so) that that wish was totally impossible according to the constitution so Prince Albert became Kind Albert.

Now, 15 or so years later, Albert is getting old and realistically speaking, Prince Filip will become King within the near future. And as of 2 weeks ago, the entire government (including opposition parties) are working towards a constitutional change that would remove all political power from the King to prevent such shenanigans from happening again. Because even though Belgium is ruled in a democratic multi party fashion, the King currently has a number of key roles and powers that he could use. Our current King has never done so to force his own views upon the country, but with Filip, people really have no confidence that that state of affairs will continue.

 

[Bruno@MT]

+1.

And I don't think any less of you for it. After all, I still call myself a Catholic despite having the aforementioned opinion about the Catholic church. I realize it is illogical, but there you are...

Interesting, I just received a neg rep (probably. It was grayed out for some reason) for the above post, stating that 'you people are just plain sick'. And of course no name was left.

Puzzling though. I fail to see how that rep would be relevant to the comment I made. Presumably this was about Bill and me. Now I already indicated that, while considering myself Catholic, I am at odds with the church. Bill is not (correct me if I am wrong Bill). So there is no way that the comment would make sense if it tried to address us both.

Or perhaps we are sick for believing in something. But in that case most of the people in this discussion should have been neg repped, and I don't thnk that has happened.

Anyone care to take a guess?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Interesting, I just received a neg rep (probably. It was grayed out for some reason) for the above post, stating that 'you people are just plain sick'. And of course no name was left.

Puzzling though. I fail to see how that rep would be relevant to the comment I made. Presumably this was about Bill and me. Now I already indicated that, while considering myself Catholic, I am at odds with the church. Bill is not (correct me if I am wrong Bill). So there is no way that the comment would make sense if it tried to address us both.

Or perhaps we are sick for believing in something. But in that case most of the people in this discussion should have been neg repped, and I don't thnk that has happened.

Anyone care to take a guess?

I got the same comment, same neg rep, same no name. No problem. And you're correct, I'm not at odds with the Church. Life goes on!

 

[Ken Morgan]

I got the same comment, same neg rep, same no name. No problem. And you're correct, I'm not at odds with the Church. Life goes on!

No offence boys, but inspite of my negative talk about religion in general, and not being religious, I got nothing, good or bad!! So I don't understand the logic the person used to single you both out.

Though i may have just dangled a very attractive piece of wool in front of a crazy cat....

 

[CanuckMA]

Not germane to the discussion, just curious as to how long you think doctors are trained...

Apparently, not nearly long enough, because they all keep 'practicing'.:boing2:

 

[kaizasosei]

Sorry for coming back with this. I'm not against the church because i believe in the essence of the teachings, but i still wanted to add that if you study the matter further, you will find that not all the abuse was sexual. That there were also many stories of unfair beatings, harsh corporal punishment and punishments that were in some instances cruel to the point of perversion. From the martial perspective one must also take note of this. The martial language is a such a delicate thing.

In martial arts training or military you also can expect to encounter some toughness, but the happenings are beyond that scope and sometimes did involve the gratification of the torturer-oppressor in several ways.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Sorry for coming back with this. I'm not against the church because i believe in the essence of the teachings, but i still wanted to add that if you study the matter further, you will find that not all the abuse was sexual. That there were also many stories of unfair beatings, harsh corporal punishment and punishments that were in some instances cruel to the point of perversion. From the martial perspective one must also take note of this. The martial language is a such a delicate thing.

In martial arts training or military you also can expect to encounter some toughness, but the happenings are beyond that scope and sometimes did involve the gratification of the torturer-oppressor in several ways.

A lot there depends on context and historical setting. The British school system was notorious for birchings and canings, such that there is quite a fetish there now amongst those who were so punished and now are tweaked that way.

My father beat me with a belt; didn't turn me kinky (I have different kinks), but it sure left welts. Different times. I'm not broken because of the beatings I endured.

 

[kaizasosei]

I went to school in africa and i got the cane- (a strip of bicycle tire in a cooky tin) several times. I also am not a fan of people being sissies about things, but some of the stories are really disturbing. Nothing like getting hit a number of times(which i don't believe in unless the person agrees and has no fear). Nothing like a cross or sick old granny smacking the back of your fingers with a fat pencil. Much more messed up


j

 

[Ramirez]

A lot there depends on context and historical setting. The British school system was notorious for birchings and canings, such that there is quite a fetish there now amongst those who were so punished and now are tweaked that way.

My father beat me with a belt; didn't turn me kinky (I have different kinks), but it sure left welts. Different times. I'm not broken because of the beatings I endured.

Good thing we are in more progressive times, I was beaten with a wooden coat hanger by my mother, it taught me nothing except to reject the Catholic Church as the biggest scam (she was and still is religious) and it was more for her to release her anger than teach me anything.