Northern vs Southern

[RHD]

Also, as far as the footwork goes, Northern systems are more linnear in thier sets. There are exceptions of course, Bagua comes to mind, but the long fisted styles are usually presented with straight line footwork. Whether the techniques are long range or close range is more a matter of understanding on the part of the practitioner. My experience is that the greater the level of understanding, the closer the range employed. Southern footwork mostly is triangular or in a seven stars pattern. It's designed to recieve head on attacks and break the stance of the attacker, and fight in a very up close and in your face manner.

Hope that helps.

Mike

 

[j_m]

Southern styles tend to do much more body conditioning such as toughening the forearms and shins, and learning to take blows to the body, much like a boxer would do. Northern styles tend to ustilize formal "iron body" exercises and take a more internal approach.

Being a primarily "northern" stylist I can safely say that many northern styles do a lot of body conditioning. Even "iron body" and "iron palm" do not always take a so-called "internal" aproach.

Also, as far as the footwork goes, Northern systems are more linnear in thier sets. There are exceptions of course, Bagua comes to mind, but the long fisted styles are usually presented with straight line footwork. Whether the techniques are long range or close range is more a matter of understanding on the part of the practitioner. My experience is that the greater the level of understanding, the closer the range employed. Southern footwork mostly is triangular or in a seven stars pattern. It's designed to recieve head on attacks and break the stance of the attacker, and fight in a very up close and in your face manner.

Again, this is just another vague generalization. The long fist I practice has a lot of footwork other than "linear". Actually much of it, past the very basics, is quite triangular and circular. Most of which is "designed to recieve head on attacks and break the stance of the attacker, and fight in a very up close and in your face manner". :ultracool




The only differences between northern and southern that I've been able to find is that one originated in the north while the other originated in the south. After all, good kung fu is... well... just good kung fu.




jm

 

[RHD]

After all, good kung fu is... well... just good kung fu.


jm

I wish it all was...

But anyway, yes, the descriptions I gave are general. Anyone else care to give thier input? My input is based primarily on observation.

Mike

 

[clfsean]

I wish it all was...

But anyway, yes, the descriptions I gave are general. Anyone else care to give thier input? My input is based primarily on observation.

Mike

Nah... I think I said what you did, but yours was a little better laid out...

 

[mike c]

There's plenty of differences between the two, even in the weapons. You can tell that Northern style weapons are designed for fighting in a place with plenty of open space, while Southern style weapons seem to be smaller for fighting in places with limited space.
Also, Northern style forms usually travel in only four directions (forward, back, left or right) and take up more space than Southern style forms, which have you travel in directions more like a star. Again, making the connections between open fields and small city streets.

 

[7starmantis]

There's plenty of differences between the two, even in the weapons. You can tell that Northern style weapons are designed for fighting in a place with plenty of open space, while Southern style weapons seem to be smaller for fighting in places with limited space.
Also, Northern style forms usually travel in only four directions (forward, back, left or right) and take up more space than Southern style forms, which have you travel in directions more like a star. Again, making the connections between open fields and small city streets.

Welcome to the Boards Mike, if I can be of any assistance, please let me know.

Thats an interesting theory, do you have some forms or something to offer as examples for that?

- MT Senior Moderator -
7starmantis
Adam C

 

[rox]

I'm not sure, but I guess that China itself divided styles between Northern and Southern, only thinking of easy wushu division.

I haven't seen enough, but from all the kati and presentations I've seen, there's no much difference in the inside/outside fighting, geografically speaking.

 

[j_m]

There's plenty of differences between the two, even in the weapons. You can tell that Northern style weapons are designed for fighting in a place with plenty of open space, while Southern style weapons seem to be smaller for fighting in places with limited space.

Hmmm... Bagua is a northern system and it's main weapons are all very small: deerhorns, needles, daggers, etc... Other northern systems also incorporate daggers, sticks, fan, rings, etc.

Also, Northern style forms usually travel in only four directions (forward, back, left or right) and take up more space than Southern style forms, which have you travel in directions more like a star. Again, making the connections between open fields and small city streets.

Only 4 directions?? That's a new one. The northern styles I practice (and see practiced) travel in "8 directions"... which in Chinese lingo means ALL directions. Bagua and Xingyi take up very little space... less than a lot of southern styles. And there are a lot of small city streets in the north as well as a lot of open fields in the south



Keep 'em coming!




jm

 

[Dronak]

Well, as far as I can tell from what I've done in my long fist training, the more basic the form, the less they use the diagonals. IIRC, of our three basic level forms, two only travel forward, back, left, and right and the third only includes the diagonals in four moves at the end of the form. Higher level forms do seem to incorporate more use of the diagonals, but the four linear directions still seem to be the dominant directions of travel. FWIW, YMMV.

 

[pekho]

My style takes techniques from both northern and southern Shaolin, and we have folk sayings from both. In the north they say, "raise the leg to see the moon (gain a treasure?)" i.e. kicking gives one an advantage. In the south they say "raise a leg, sell the rice field". This implies that if one kicks, one may be selling the farm to pay for funeral expenses. The interesting part is that it is purposefully unclear whose funeral it is. The idea is that kicks are dangerous to both sides; they can kill with a single blow, but leave one vulnerable at the same time.

Josh

 

[bcbernam777]

I cant really add to much to the mix because my experiance is very limited, but before I studied Wing Chun I did study a style called Shaolin Chowga wich is a vietnamese derivitive of Shaolin. There was a focus on legs, and the hand work was more extended and hard, wign chun of course is focused on short hands for the infight, and of course the leg work is not nearly as occomplished or broad as the shaolin style, but I am not sure if that is a northern v southern, as far as I was aware Ng Mai ws an abbess at the Shaolin Temple, so it was shaolin she was familiar with, it may well have been the twighlight of her years so the focus was on the hands and getting in close, who knows. I however do not know enough to comment distinctions between the North and South

 

[InvisibleFist]

When they systemized the wushu forms, they divided them into Northern and Southern.Heres a terrific link to see the differences in character between Northern (Changquan) and Southern.
http://www.wushucentral.com/videos/v.php/china/2001_china_games

Notice that not only are there more kicks, but the Northern forms have longer bodys, more stretched out, while the southern forms use deep rooted stances.

IMHO, they are both beautiful to watch.

 

[7starmantis]

When they systemized the wushu forms, they divided them into Northern and Southern.Heres a terrific link to see the differences in character between Northern (Changquan) and Southern.
http://www.wushucentral.com/videos/v.php/china/2001_china_games

Notice that not only are there more kicks, but the Northern forms have longer bodys, more stretched out, while the southern forms use deep rooted stances.

IMHO, they are both beautiful to watch.

These are still just generalities and deal with modern wushu which is not what I'm really refering to. Your example is still only one piece of the entire picture.

7sm

 

[clfsean]

When they systemized the wushu forms, they divided them into Northern and Southern.Heres a terrific link to see the differences in character between Northern (Changquan) and Southern.
http://www.wushucentral.com/videos/v.php/china/2001_china_games

Notice that not only are there more kicks, but the Northern forms have longer bodys, more stretched out, while the southern forms use deep rooted stances.

IMHO, they are both beautiful to watch.

Modern wushu isn't really a good indicator of the big major, sweeping differences between Northern & Southern CMA. Chang Quan & Nan Quan in my eyes are about the same all the way around.

Some good examples of difference indicators would be to watch:::::

Zha Quan - North
Bak Mei --- South

or

Chen Taiji -- North
Yong Chun White Crane -- South
or

Taiji Meihua Mantis -- North
Hung Ga --- South


Then you can see all sorts of the more obvious & not so obvious differences.

 

[7starmantis]

Some good examples of difference indicators would be to watch:::::

Zha Quan - North
Bak Mei --- South

or

Chen Taiji -- North
Yong Chun White Crane -- South
or

Taiji Meihua Mantis -- North
Hung Ga --- South


Then you can see all sorts of the more obvious & not so obvious differences.

Good point, but the real question is are those differences seperated by style vs style or northern vs southern. What I'm trying to say is that the differences between Chen Taiji -- North and Yong Chun White Crane -- South, are more style differences rather than differences in the classification of northern to southern.

What makes a classification such as the Northern/Southern debate really true is if the differences are across the board between northern and southern styles. The problem with really detailing that is that there are many differences from style to style that are just simply differences in style and not neccessarily differences between Northern and Southern Kung Fu.

did that make sense?
7sm

 

[clfsean]

Good point, but the real question is are those differences seperated by style vs style or northern vs southern. What I'm trying to say is that the differences between Chen Taiji -- North and Yong Chun White Crane -- South, are more style differences rather than differences in the classification of northern to southern.

What makes a classification such as the Northern/Southern debate really true is if the differences are across the board between northern and southern styles. The problem with really detailing that is that there are many differences from style to style that are just simply differences in style and not neccessarily differences between Northern and Southern Kung Fu.

did that make sense?
7sm

Yeah it did, but let me pick apart one sentence that may clear things a bit...

The problem with really detailing that is that there are many differences from style to style that are just simply differences in style and not neccessarily differences between Northern and Southern Kung Fu.

This is true. However (general wide sweeping statement) most Northern styles , be internal or external, all kinda feel & look the same. Same is true for Southern styles, except in the south you separate by Long Hand or Short Hand. However even within that split, they all kinda feel & look the same.

However... Nothern doesn't "all kinda feel & look the same" as Southern.

 

[7starmantis]

This is true. However (general wide sweeping statement) most Northern styles , be internal or external, all kinda feel & look the same. Same is true for Southern styles, except in the south you separate by Long Hand or Short Hand. However even within that split, they all kinda feel & look the same.

I dont know, this is where I run into a problem, because I dont agree that northern styles look and feel alike. There seems to be more classifications within the northern/southern one. Such as, "Northern Shaolin" styles all "Feel" and "look" alike in my opinion, but northern shaolin doesn't look and feel like 7* mantis. I think CLF and WC look and feel different. Thats why I dont agree with the northern southern seperation.

7sm

 

[clfsean]

I dont know, this is where I run into a problem, because I dont agree that northern styles look and feel alike. There seems to be more classifications within the northern/southern one. Such as, "Northern Shaolin" styles all "Feel" and "look" alike in my opinion, but northern shaolin doesn't look and feel like 7* mantis. I think CLF and WC look and feel different. Thats why I dont agree with the northern southern seperation.

7sm

True true... but remember most 7* in America has a lot of Hong Kong influence in it. I don't think there's more mainland 7* than Hong Kong here. I ould very easily be mistaken about that though...

CLF & WC are different indeed. Southern Long Hand & Southern Short Hand. Two completely different creatures (no pun intended), but yet very much different from Northen systems in theories, power expression, footwork, etc...

 

[7starmantis]

True true... but remember most 7* in America has a lot of Hong Kong influence in it. I don't think there's more mainland 7* than Hong Kong here. I ould very easily be mistaken about that though...

CLF & WC are different indeed. Southern Long Hand & Southern Short Hand. Two completely different creatures (no pun intended), but yet very much different from Northen systems in theories, power expression, footwork, etc...

Very true, in our lineage we trace back to Hong Kong and we also have a line that doesn't, so we get to see some of both. However, we are talking about a northern system (7*) practiced in Southern China. I didn't think the North vs South debate spanned this much time. I was of the idea that the division would have occured years and years in the past. Whether its from Hong Kong or not its still a northern system, no?

Also, I actually seem to see some similarites between WC and 7* especially in chi sau. I do see the differences as well though. I guess its almost just semantics, do we focus on the differences and say the classification is correct, or do we focus on the similarities and say the classification is wrong? Which one is "more right"?

7sm

 

[Infrazael]

Another thing I would like to point out is that people tend to associate Northern styles with longfist, and Southern styles with short-range attacks.

Not true. Choy Lay Fut is a true longfist style, and it's southern. And if I'm correct, 7* Mantis people like to close in, and they are Northern.

Peace.