New Student: when will you quit?

Discussion in 'Beginners Corner' started by Bill Mattocks, Nov 16, 2011.

  1. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    That't the point - it should be fun. Different people enjoy different things. I'm like you - if it's too serious, I'm going to lose interest eventually. But some folks love the deep, intense seriousness you see at other schools. It works for them, like laughter works for me.

    I think you'll find there's a culture to most forums (fora?). The MMA folks here don't tend to have the same blinders about the difference between a 50-year-old hobbyist and a 30-something professional athlete. Sure, there are some who show up who have a cocky attitude, but that's true of any segment of MA (so isn't unique to MMA).

    Yeah, you'll find folks like that in other areas of MA. Usually, it's whatever's in its ascendency (right now, that's MMA) that gets the most of them.

    I think you'll find that same machismo in any heavy-contact sport. It's in football, for sure. Certain kinds of folks are more drawn to certain activities. Just don't let it cause you to paint them all with that brush. Some of the MMA guys in here are pretty down-to-earth, even if they're always wrong about everything. :D
     
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  2. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    I'm glad you think I'm always right about MMA seeing as you think the guys are wrong! :D
     
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  3. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Well you're wrong. Some do yes but most don't at all. I've taken time out of a few places and when I come back maybe there's either a light hearted joke made or nothing's said.

    Sounds like you're just bitter about something
     
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  4. mrt2

    mrt2 Purple Belt

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    One of the secondary benefits of martial arts training is the social aspect of it. People of different ages, professions, and walks of life all training together 2, or 3 times a week. But a lot of times, the basis for the friendship is the training, and when that is gone, probably not much to talk about, sadly.
     
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  5. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Well sorry but some people do want to train seriously. If these guys are training for a competition they do want to focus on training not acting like clowns. When I'm rolling in bjj I'm focused on the roll because 1 I want to get better and 2 I'm focused on stopping a guy choking me out or putting me in a submission so yeah I'm not cracking jokes while trying to defend against submissions. But in drills yeah you can have a joke sometimes but rolling no that's the time to work
     
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  6. Rat

    Rat Master Black Belt

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    Perfect paraphrase of a quote from someone i saw about fighting. Fighting aint worth it unless your getting paid. Basically, no point in sparring full contact unless you are getting paid for it.

    And you kind of risk brain damage when juggling pending what you juggle as it can land on your head if you mess up.
     
  7. Leviathan

    Leviathan Yellow Belt

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    Hi,

    I can relate to Rick Franklin's in a way.

    I see 2 main reasons for that:

    - while tennis, basket ball, soccer etc. are definitely games confined to a playing field, martial arts aim at making you a better fighter and helping you out on the street kicking the bad guy's *** if need be. Since many action movies and series heroes are usually good at kicking bad guys' ***, you can connect the dots yourself and understand there may be a tendency for some MA practitioners to view themselves as the star / hero. Sounds ridiculous? They'll publicly say "yes" but - as a result of a life long conditioning - may think otherwise into themselves.

    - yes there definitely is a hierarchy in many martial arts: ever heard of belts with all their colors? The order you line up for bowing at the beginning and the end of the training... To some extent it's ok to organize the whole stuff. But a belt shouldn't be taken for more than what it is.

    Kind regards
     
  8. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Good grief no, we're British, we don't go around yelling about how good we are. We make jokes and self deprecating comments about ourselves. Macho lifestyle and being British doesn't go together though certain Scots may try a few growls now and again.
    and before anyone says it Conor Mcgregor is not British he's Irish, from the south an entirely different country.
     
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  9. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Lol what a load of nonsense. First no martial arts goal isn't all about making you a fighter. Some styles like boxing and Mma yes but others like karate, taekwondo, Krav Maga etc it isn't about that it's about defending yourself and other styles are more internal and second you say about other sports like football etc. Well they have hierarchy to. They have captains and managers and coaches and different leagues that they play in.

    Have I ever heard of belt ranks?....umm yeah I think everyone knows about belts in martial arts....the belts are for the teachers to know what level the students are at and its a way to break up the ciriculum and yeah some places are arrogant about but they're the exception not the rule most places are totally fine and relaxed
     
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  10. mrt2

    mrt2 Purple Belt

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    Yes, sounds ridiculous. Practicing sparring while wearing head gear, chest protectors and shin and instep guards against your class mates is a heck of a lot different from a street fight. Moreover, movie fights are fake and I would wager anybody with more than a few months experience of sparring could see that and would be more careful engaging "bad guys" in the street.
     
  11. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Arguably you could say that boxing and MMA makes you a competitor as much as anything, fighting just happens to be the way you compete.
     
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  12. Rick Franklin

    Rick Franklin Yellow Belt

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    I definitely agree there's a huge difference between sparring and street fights. No argument there. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that it doesn't make much sense to study martial arts for self defense. I don't expect many people here to agree with me, but here's my reasoning.

    First of all, it's incredibly unlikely for most people to get violently attacked in their daily lives. If it's some drunk fool, you don't need much more than a good cross punch and a little sparring experience, right? Certainly not years of training. The reality is, if you're attacked it's probably someone who is stacking the cards in their favor. They're not looking for a fair fight. They either have a knife, or a gun, or a bunch of friends, or 50 pounds of muscle more than you. In any of those cases, you're better off giving them your wallet and/or running for you life. If I were seriously worried about being attacked on the street, I should get a gun, learn how to shoot it and get a license to carry it on my person.

    To me, the only reason to practice a martial art is because it's fun.
     
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  13. Rick Franklin

    Rick Franklin Yellow Belt

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    Touche.
     
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  14. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Yeah you're right I don't agree at all. So you're saying that someone who trains on a regular basic punches, kicks, takedowns, submissions or whatever is going to be at the same level in a street fight as some fat guy who sits on the couch all day?

    To me from your posts you sound extremely bitter about martial arts for some reason
     
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  15. Rick Franklin

    Rick Franklin Yellow Belt

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    That's reasonable. No, I wouldn't assume all MMA guys are like that.
     
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  16. Rick Franklin

    Rick Franklin Yellow Belt

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    I'm saying the concept of a street fight is a myth and to assume you're ever getting into a street fight, in the conventional sense, is dangerous. It ignores the very real possibility that guy can pull a knife while you're trying to choke him out. Or he can pull out a gun and shoot you after you knock him down. Or maybe you'll be beating him to a pulp when his friends show up. Being in great shape and a great martial artist doesn't help you with those situations. It's not worth putting your life on the line. Ever.
     
  17. Rick Franklin

    Rick Franklin Yellow Belt

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    I like martial arts, I just don't like all the baggage that it can come with.
     
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  18. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    I'm not sure that you understand what fights are like outside of a training environment, how easily they can start between people especially when alcohol is involved. I've seen and broken up quite a few, not by myself but with colleagues. You seem to be basing your opinion on films and television programmes. Fights can be totally random, with most involved not setting out to fight.



    As you seem to have so many problems in so many different places I'm thinking the one with the baggage is you not the places you've been training at.
     
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  19. Rick Franklin

    Rick Franklin Yellow Belt

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    I've never been in a street fight. I don't know anyone who's been in a street fight (at least not that they told me). My opinion is based on footage I've seen of real fights, some statistics and news articles.

    I'm sure you're heard about how easy it is for a single punch to kill someone. I think there was a young high school girl it happened to recently, scuffling with her classmates. I believe it was just a shove too and the girl who did it is getting charged as an adult. Once I saw police footage of a cop who was knocked over by a handcuffed perp. He knocked his head against the floor and was paralyzed for life. Martial arts wouldn't have helped him there. Maybe you saw the footage of that guy who was yelling at a motorist for parking in a handicapped spot when he was knocked to the floor by the driver's boyfriend. He pulled out a gun and shot the guy. Martial arts wouldn't have helped the boyfriend there.

    There are lots of videos of "street fights" where one guy is winning until some random stranger in the crowd (or a friend of the loser) steps in and soccer kicks or sucker-punches the winner. Hard to be prepared for stuff like that. Locally I remember reading a news story of a couple hanging out a bar when a stranger smacks the girl's butt. The husband makes a scene but it turns out the stranger was a cop and was there with a bunch of buddies. They beat him to a pulp. I don't think martial arts would have helped him out.

    Now, I'm sure for every instance I've listed here you could come up with several where two guys fought and no knives or guns or buddies showed up. I'm not debating that happens. My point is that it COULD go the other way and therefore, it's not worth it.

    I know personal attacks are a staple of internet discussions everywhere, but I hope you'll excuse me if I don't respond to yours.
     
  20. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    That wasn't a 'personal attack' it was an observation made because of your seeming inability to not find something wrong with every place you have trained. Think about it, one of you, many martial arts places but it's never you who is the problem...…….. I'd suggest you don't go in with an empty cup.

    You are putting your theoretical knowledge up against peoples actual knowledge and experience, can you be surprised if you are incorrect? the footage you see of fights doesn't follow the fights from before they started, the monkey dance part so all you see is the stupid bit.

    Mate, I haven't 'heard' but I have had to take statements and deal with so called 'one punch' incidents. Only one died luckily. Trust me, I've seen and dealt with all sort of fights, I've walked nay run away from fights and I've picked up the pieces after fights. I used to work with people who loved a fight, who often had people pick on them just to start a fight and some who would fight among themselves just for the craic.


    Really, what do you actually think we learn in martial arts? It's not all punching and kicking, we teach awareness as well as how to avoid being hit ( I always like that bit, most people do) and how to avoid altercations to start with.



    And? that proves martial arts doesn't work does it? or does it prove there are idiots who drink too much or who are just complete morons. Martial artists don't go around brawling which is basically what you are describing. The fights are rarely random and usually can be avoided by sensible people. Muggings and attacks are a completely different thing.


    If he'd been a martial artist he would have assessed the situation, knowing that it was more than likely that man wasn't on his own and even if it makes him look like a coward he would have taken his wife out of the bar and away from there. Discretion is the better part of valour.



    No I'm not, I'm going to say get some time in, stop watching fights on videos and get some real life experience, stop trying to tell experienced martial arts why you think they are wrong because while you are glued to a screen, we're training.123
     

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