New belt for Second Dan?

[puunui]

Are we seriously going to have this argument?

If you don't mind me asking, can you tell me who this post is directed to? I don't think it is me necessarily, given the fact that you had already responded to my last post before writing this one.

 

[Grenadier]

This discussion is not about whose opinions matter more, or less. It's about whether or not new belts should be issued for another dan ranking. That being said...

ATTENTION ALL USERS

Please return to the topic.

Thank you.

-Ronald Shin
-MT Supermoderator

 

[terryl965]

Well to the OP what did your instructor say? Because in the end his opinion is the one that matters.

 

[Bruno@MT]

I don't think the forum itself is the issue. Personally I don't write or say anything on here that I wouldn't say directly to a person's face. I also think some of the others really don't follow that same standard. I also think that a lot of people feel that it is appropriate to disregard seniority when making comments, which is why I said that the baby 1st Dan with four years of training is the equal of the 40 year 9th Dan on MT. Not just on MT, but in all of the big public organizations that I am affiliated with, Kukkiwon, USAT, WTF, etc., there are a lot of juniors who do not want hear or consider what their seniors have to say, especially if that senior has a viewpoint that is different from their own.

I have no doubt that those juniors will come to realize and understand their seniors' point of view, in much the same way that those who helped to tear down the USTU have come to realize what they have done. Hopefully, that realization won't come too late, like it seems to have for USAT.

Well, this is an internet discussion board which is unrelated to any martial arts orgnization.
The only thing we have is our opinion, and while yours may be more relevant than mine in this specific forum, mine will be more relevant in other areas.

Seniority as such is not relevant here.

 

[miguksaram]

Well said. Pretty much word for word what I have been trying to say for some time now. Opinions are just opinions, I dont care whether you are a white belt or a 9th dan you are entitled to an opinion and your opinion shouldnt be of any less value because of what belt level you hold in the dojang.

While opinions are opinions there is a distinct difference of informative opinions vs. ignorant opinions. So if a kid comes to me and tells me the world is flat and that is his opinion are you saying that I shouldn't place any less value in that compared to an astronaut who has told me that the world is round? If a white belt gives me his/her opinion that TKD started 5000 years ago, because that is what their 35 year old instructor says, am I to place equal value in that as I would a 9th dan, 2nd generation student of Lee, Won-kuk who tells me TKD was the result of several karate-ka getting together back in the 40's to develop an art that would be distinctively Korean?

Problem is that we have this thought that everyone's opinion should be valued when on a board, and if we are talking about preferential opinions like saying "I enjoy having stripes on my belt because it makes me feel distinguished", then I agree. However, if someone comes up with the opinion USAT are crooks, then I expect them to back that opinion up with facts not feelings. I will not place value in ignorance. It is this type of mindset that would allow people to come on here with racially driven opinions saying things like old Korean GM's only look out for other Koreans and don't care about non-Korean instructors.

Yes you are entitled to your opinion, but once you express it in an open forum then be prepared to defend that opinion.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Where do you draw the line? If having rank stripes is 'egotistical' or showing off, why wear a black belt at all?

Given that taekwondo is a sport, and sports do involve a degree of showing off (getting up in front of an audience wearing brightly colored padding and trying to kick the crap out of the other guy in brightly colored padding so that you can be presented with a medal and/or trophy is the very essence of showing off), I find that the whole stripes=ego argument to be lacking.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not criticizing the sport. Part of what makes sports enjoyable is seeing an athlete 'show off' what they can do. I cannot begrudge them the stripes.

Funny thing is, those that don't like the stripes prefer an unstriped belt based entirely on what it looks like. My thinking that a belt that is worn and showing white at the edges looks cool is just as superficial as someone else thinking that stripes look cool.

Why not just train in a tracksuit with no belt, why even own a black belt?

Why not? Or why not train in normal clothes? That kimono, under-kimono, and hakama that those prewar masters wore to train in was the equivalent of a three piece suit in Japan at that time. We could do that and just use white through black ties.

As I said earlier, we had a training camp a couple of weeks ago, there were literally hundreds of black belts all together training on the beach, I regularly asked seniors for advice, if everyone was just in a plain black belt it would have been mayhem. Being able to easily identify someone of a higher/lower rank made things much easier.

I suspect that if all of you had had plain black belts, things would have proceeded just fine and you would have all had other ways of gauging the experience of your fellows. However, I will concede that in a large gathering, it is helpful.

Daniel

 

[puunui]

>Funny thing is, those that don't like the stripes prefer an unstriped belt
>based entirely on what it looks like.


For me, I don't wear stripes on my belt because my teachers never did. But I do recognize that more Korean Martial Arts dojang are adopting stripes on their belts, for a variety of reasons. At the Kukkiwon Instructor Course, people showed up on the first day wearing patch covered uniforms and stripes and other stuff on their belts. We got told that such things are for children, not instructor level adults, and were ordered told to show up for the rest of the seminar in plain uniforms. I think the group photo session was delayed until everyone had a plain uniform. Our Kukkiwon instructors wore plain belts with only their name on it, but their uniform did have the Kukkiwon patch on their left breast area as well as the words Kukkiwon written on the back in hangul.

 

[puunui]

Why not? Or why not train in normal clothes? That kimono, under-kimono, and hakama that those prewar masters wore to train in was the equivalent of a three piece suit in Japan at that time. We could do that and just use white through black ties.

In Okinawa, practitioners often trained in their loin cloths, and there was no ranks, so no belt and no stripes on belt.

And some dobok now cost as much a suit, at least a cheap one. Belts too can cost more than an expensive tie. Jiujitsu uniforms are even more expensive. It's pretty shocking if you ask me.

 

[d1jinx]

I was thinking of changing the uniform to THONGS..... but then i thought about who would be wearing them...:barf:

 

[Master Dan]

We use the stripes with a new belt for each Dan which encourages students to have pride in accomplishment line up is based on rank and age with older or senior time in rank observed. Also keep one every day belt for training and one very nice belt for demo or competition possibly a light weight belt for fighting.

Now I like lots of different belts for myself new and clean I never wear a striped belt outside the dojang olny name in english and Korean.

While the comment has been made about the ego of stripes and such I have a better one for you instead of using stripes people wash thier black belt over and over with bleach and through a bag of quarters in to the machine to age it and even frey it terribly making the statement I am very old very experienced and very wise. Because of this I have always thrown my old belt away and get new ones.

One question though to all of you who makes the best belts stitching can be very low quality with some suppliers? We are going to train outside alot this summer if we have one? I want to find uniforms comfortable possibly black that won't pick up grass or dirt stance easy?

 

[puunui]

Yes you are entitled to your opinion, but once you express it in an open forum then be prepared to defend that opinion.

And don't get upset or resentful when it becomes obvious that you don't have any facts to support that "opinion".

 

[Kacey]

We get new belts at each rank. However, we also have a tradition of passing down belts to deserving students, which makes the last wearer the mentor of the current wearer. There was a red bed that was passed down so many times it was pale pink by the time it fell apart and had to be replaced. It's all in what is normal for the school you're in.

 

[puunui]

We get new belts at each rank. However, we also have a tradition of passing down belts to deserving students, which makes the last wearer the mentor of the current wearer.

They do that in Gracie Jiujitsu here, passing down color belts that you no longer use. There was no mentoring responsibility for the one who held the belt before you. I think it had to do with the fact that that black part on the bottom of the belt where the stripes go had to be hand sewn onto the belt. It was easier to simply pass belts down that already had that black area on one tip. Now I see that they sell belts with that black area on it already so perhaps that tradition of passing belts down will fade.

I heard that some of the Kenpo people used to dye their belts using rit dye back in the day, and there may have been a passing down of old belts out of economic necessity back then.

In every other style, they gave us new color belts when we got promoted. We never passed down belts in any Korean style dojang that I joined.

 

[puunui]

While the comment has been made about the ego of stripes and such I have a better one for you instead of using stripes people wash thier black belt over and over with bleach and through a bag of quarters in to the machine to age it and even frey it terribly making the statement I am very old very experienced and very wise. Because of this I have always thrown my old belt away and get new ones.

I don't know anyone who used bleach on their belts or a bag of quarters in the machine to age a belt. I would think that if someone did do that, it would be easy to tell. I don't understand that kind of thinking.

 

[puunui]

It's all in what is normal for the school you're in.

Is that the norm in ITF schools in general, or just yours in particular?

 

[searcher]

In my school, I leave it up to the students if they want stripes on their belt or not. I have belts with and some without. I have my original BB, but My Wife is currently wearing it while she teaches. I have another belt that I got when I received my 6th Dan. I have been thinking about retiring it and getting a new Eosin-Panther BB and wearing it. I have all of my BBs from each school I have trained in and not oneof them is the same belt. I figure if I start over in a new system, I will get a new BB when the time comes.

My Wife also has her original BB and she still wears it. She also has her BB that has her 4 rank bars on it as well(though she rarely wears it).

We are both keeping our original belts for when our children run their own schools. I plan to "will" mine to the oldest and she plans to "will" hers to the youngest.


Now, if we go to a big camp or fancy to-do, I wear my belt with my rank bars on it. But I make a point to line up in the most junior position I can find, right by the white belts. I let the other guys bicker over who is more senior. Not my cup of tea.

 

[andyjeffries]

However, we also have a tradition of passing down belts to deserving students, which makes the last wearer the mentor of the current wearer. There was a red bed that was passed down so many times it was pale pink by the time it fell apart and had to be replaced.

I really like this idea. I don't think I'd do it (I prefer new belts to old looking ones) but it's a really nice idea.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I don't know anyone who used bleach on their belts or a bag of quarters in the machine to age a belt. I would think that if someone did do that, it would be easy to tell. I don't understand that kind of thinking.

You may not understand that kind of thinking, but Levis certainly does. Preworn jeans generally cost more than regular jeans.

Daniel

 

[dancingalone]

I don't know anyone who used bleach on their belts or a bag of quarters in the machine to age a belt. I would think that if someone did do that, it would be easy to tell. I don't understand that kind of thinking.

Well, yes it is. I don't understand the practice myself since presumably you're going to set some awfully high expectations for your skill level when you come out wearing something like that.

People do a lot of dumb things in the name of vanity.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

People do a lot of dumb things in the name of vanity.

And therein lies the understanding of that way of thinking.

Daniel